They just keep dumming games down for a stupid audience that doesnt exist

I couldnt get that into Fallout 4. It was disappointing compared to 3 and New Vegas. I liked Starfield more and was actually able to finish all the main quest lines and get all the achievements. Probably because Starfield I wasnt constantly comparing to previous Fallouts and Elder Scrolls and was actually going in expecting to hate it.

Love fallout 4
You can build to level up
Only drawback you can’t have kids without mods
Fix that best game ever

So now they are not rpgs.

bethesda games stopped being “rpg’s” after fallout new vegas. you cant convince me otherwise. they keep drastically dumbing down their games (they think yall are stupid) and then marketing it like theyre still the same ol’ rpg. its actually really dishonest and gross.

I don’t think you know what an RPG is

Any thought on “Manboobs the Mini Game”?

Fallout New Vegas is the only 3D Fallout that was actually Fallout, Bethesda’s attempts aren’t even close to how an RPG should be they’ve and lost that since Oblivion.

I always say that Bethesda games are “baby’s first RPG” which isn’t a bad thing there needs to be an a way to get people who have never touched an RPG to play one and Bethesda games are that

WTF are you talking about of course it’s a RPG

Bethesda makes what I call “Soft-Core RPG’s” Adventure games, with typical RPG elements, but even that is a strech now and days, especially since Starfield

They were open minded with skyrim, fallout 3 and fallout new vegas. Then they became Bethesda the corporation. Always happens when you become “AAA” game studio. Thats when you know the games will start to suck….. i remember 76 launch, took of work wasted 60 bucks and was furious!!!!

We also have years of updates, DLC and mods that help Skyrim and FO4. Not saying there are not other issues to SF, I do wish it had more RPG elements to it.

We all collectively judge Fallout 4 way too harshly.

All these years later and Ill still enjoy playing F4 for an hour.

Have they fixed the “next gen update”? I had to mod the crap out of the game to fix it

I’ve been saying for a while fallout 4 isn’t an RPG, it’s a FPS with an adventure attached

Fo4 would be so much better with the old skill system and perks, i really dont understand why they would reduce it to just perks… oh! Also better writing

Fallout 4 was too catered to a younger audience with vivid colors and soft dialogue. Voiced main character was such a buzz kill.

I hate Fallout 4 worth a passion. It takes everything wrong and doubles down on it in Starfield but removes the key part of Bethesda games, which is exploration. We are slowly making it to a point where nothing matters.

I’ve been playing bethesdas games for about 16 or 17 years. I think Oblivion was my first one. They have always been special to me, and I’ll remember them fondly for a long time. But in my humble opinion they were never THAT good. Also no matter what anyone says or how many video essays you make on it New Vegas was only just good as well. Its a very good game for sure but the nostalgic picture everyone has of it is blown so oit of proportion.
Skyrim was lightning in a bottle back in the day but the shine has worn way off of it and to this day the only game in the catalogue that I continue to play is Fallout 4. I am still finding interesting ways to play that game.

Sandbox Adventure game with basic combat and RPG elements- doesn’t roll of the tongue, but it’s a good explanation of what it is.

People get too focused on a “narrative” element in these games and that attitude kinda ruined alot of ttrpgs

Funny, i found fallout 4 less fun than starfield. Especially with exploring.

here’s the fun part > MODS 😁🍷

Barren empty worlds dont make for good exploring

What a weird take… F4 is a great game and absolutely an RPG in every sense of the word. Starfield is an ok game but it doesn’t hold a candle to F4 and has far fewer role playing aspects

“Fallout 4 is not a good fallout game”

I’ve basically heard a few creators say that it’s the most non fallout game out of the series in some way shape or form but even with that said I did enjoy playing the game

From what I’ve heard about star field it’s a bethesda game from 10+ years ago that was being sold 10-15 years too late

there’s a settlement that needs your help!

Fallout 4 is fun, its just not a good RPG. Idk why thats such a fucking controversial take

Fallout 4 is genuinely a fun game, it’s only haters are hardcore fallout fans.

It I realized after watching some play videos of Oblivion, that conversations are extremely dull in Starfield. Sure, there are 100s of other issues, but just to raise one out, Oblivion had only a of voice actors for the 100s of NPCs and yet there were funny, sad, happy, angry, insane, dull, smart, dumb, characters and variance of opinions and needs and what they were about. Some evil wanted me to kill someone, while some other wanted me to steal. One wanted me to bring something which would actually got me in trouble. He essentially wanted me dead. Starfield has one type of NPC: absolutely dull NPCs and no variance.

I find this question more crucial than when questioning whether Zelda is an RPG or an adventure game.
I had never seen it from this side, but really, Bethesda games seem more adventure than RPG, and especially after what BG3 was

I re download fallout 4 every now n then to just explore a cool setting its my all time favorite fallout map and game mainly cos of the mods and only having an xbox but I’d still say a very good game tho without mods like luke says u gotta play it different the story to 4 is kinda bad 😂😂

Stockholm syndrome if u think fallout 4 is better because starfield is ass

It’s crazy the amount of cope that’s required to enjoy Bethesda games.

The biggest complaint about Fallout 4 has always been that it was trying to be something that it simply wasn’t and that no other Bethesda game before it had ever been. It was trying to be this epic narrative experience rather than the pick a direction and walk that way until something interesting happens exploration game that every other great Bethsoft game has always been.

Another youtuber hating on starfield shocker 🙄 the hate boner you people have for a game that’s barely a year old is just sad, especially since most of you act like Skyrim and fo4 weren’t buggy disappointments at launch lol that selective memory must be nice.👍

Lol fallout 4 is literally an RPG

No. They simply forgot how to make RPGs.

They market as an RPG, yet when you play there not an rpg, rpg is that of Baulders gate, where you do something and then watch all your friends do 30 other things with 1 character for 1 plot point because CHOICES MATTER!

I have to strongly disagree with it not being an RPG as it’s quite literally a game where you the play the role of the sole survivor that can be as good or bad as you want, have complete freedom to decide your own attributes and skills that can make a massive amount of unique builds, have deep customization of weapons and armor that create a variety of play styles, and a decently branching main story based on player choice. You are right when you said it failed as Narrative driven RPG though because the story was inconsistent being unpolished in parts and there was a ton of unused potential.

By this guys definition, final fantasy is not an RPG

Their games are RPG’s, they just aren’t like classic Bioware, or Larian games.

Morrowind & Oblivion were RPGs (Classic & New Style Streamlined).

Skyrim was a power fantasy RPG.

Fallout 4 is a great Adventure Focused RPG.

So I recently played Fallout 4 with basically no clue the story is about. I had a generally fun time with it. Sure, it wasn’t a super intense RPG game like Luke said but I didn’t expect it to be. The funniest bit was when a NPC was giving me a quest or to retrieve something and I just say “Yeah, I already did that.” And they’re just like, “Oh wow. Thanks.” Probably the funniest part of the game

They are ARPGs

I like Fallout 4. I’ve never finished it but I keep going back to the same save and I’m confident that one day I will

He said different, he meant boring.

Every Bethesda game has strong RPG elements. I don’t think there are many games that can pass a purity test and I’m not saying there should be. Being creative and bending genres is important for innovation.

starfield could have been so fun if it was one solar system that you can freely fly in. A solar system is still absolutely massive if you make it well

After playing FNV I couldn’t get into fallout4 I tried forcing myself to enjoy it but I just couldn’t the world setting is boring(why the fuck are we in Boston)
The NPCs look like plastic the AI is the same from skyrim so Frankly it’s a shit fallout game I consider F3 to be better at least they nailed the depressing atmosphere.

“I just don’t think it’s good” I played the opening, went to a planet, one building otherwise barren. I know there are cities, but in any other Bethesda game you’re never more than 2 minutes from some unexplored thing full of enemies, loot, and maybe a side story

You’re right
Fo4 can be really fun if you don’t play it.

I like it and I’m a massive new Vegas enjoyer. I don’t think it’s bad especially with mods

F4 is a less bad game than Starfield, not a better game.

It’s funny, because it was this exact thought shift that I had when I came back to F4 after like 8 years of saying I didn’t like it. A few quality of life mods, and a few extra cool armors/guns, and I’ve had a blast

Bethesda’s strength has always been the open-world exploration rather than the writing. I think there should be a distintion between narrative RPGs and sandbox RPGs, and Bethesda games work better as the latter.

They’re rpg’s for sure, but they’re not really story driven

If they fail with TES6, the world’s gonna go wild! 🤯

You can kill Cornwalls guys before the side quest you miss out on Duel but you get rewarded. its a good job you did before Atthurs death as you can not do it as John i missed this quest on my first and second playthrough.

You just need a little imagination to make it feel like a RPG fallout 4

Fucking yappers…”if you dont play it like a narrative RPG”…Betheada knows what an RPG is and they know they made a shitty one. Fucking hysterical

Cool you found the Pig mask thats a Reference to Piggsey From Manhunt another Rockstar game.

Fallout 4 > Cyberpunk 2077 is my most controversial opinion. No amount of pretty graphics can make me ignore the fact that the commonwealth being a wasteland has more meaningful content, visual storytelling and interesting side quests than Night City.

Humans are, at our core, irrational and emotional beings. So when you give them an expectiation of what COULD be, you’ve given them time to make up a bias on what they want. Which as we know have often led to expectations not being met because you let people imagine what could be instead of what actually is. You can’t really do much to change people’s mond after that, so it just becomes an uphill battle when people start looking for faults, that are now much easier to see, in the product.

Bethesda games are DEFINITELY RPGs, I don’t know where he is getting that from, RPGs don’t have to have dialogue choices,morality systems and narrative choices to be an RPG, look at something like Octopath traveler or Zelda, no heavy dialogue very little choices but damn good RPGs.

RPGs are defined by taking a character (created or fixed) through a game typically fanasty or sci fi while making choices on that characters development through a class system,skill system etc.. having dialogue and choices (which Bethesda has) is just a popular addition not a hard rule to be an RPG

I dont think people appreciate the fact that Bethesda, THE Bethesda, released a product so mediocre and unoptimized that it had zero cultural impact AND the community of unpaid devs they call modders couldnt even fix it.

If you told me in 2012 that the creators of skyrims next project would take 11 years to develop and be a complete and utter flop, barely even worth talking about, i wouldnt have believed you

Its different because it doesnt exist

Sorry but i dont want fucking adventure games. I want an rpg

starfield IS techincally an RPG since you literally can choose a role to your liking and setup a background for it

The sad thing is that Bethesda is great at world building and environmental storybuilding, decent when it comes to creating memorable characters, but because the studio sucks at creating a lasting sense of cause-and-effect, their games that should be RPG’s don’t feel like them.

Skyrim and Fallout 4 are good examples of this, as in Skyrim I can become the master of two drastically different guilds and they won’t treat me any differently for it – A Thieves guild master doesn’t have to work harder to prove they are a competent warrior to the Companions, and the Thieve’s guild would be super distraught when they discover you are a werewolf since they are not exactly the sneakiest of creatures when killing.

As for Fallout 4, there is a whole list, but I’ll just say this – Why do I work for the Minute men when I reach the rank of castle General?

It is these aspects and others (bugs) that stop Bethesda from being seen as a respected RPG maker, like BioWare used to be.

If you dont believe bethesda games are not rpgs clearly logic has escaped your brain . Sure if you count doom and others of the ID variety but to say otherwise is dumb.

Never noticed how thick and meaty Jake’s hands are😊

Bethesda wants to tell stories now, and that’s fine, rather than provide a world for the players to create a story through encounters and exploration that is also supported by the narrative, npcs and quests.
They want us to be their protagonist, not roleplay our characters.

Bethesda crew has no idea what fallout is about…they just milked the franchise.

Yeah when you ignore the main story about you and Shaun fallout 4 has a lot of entertaining minor stories, or just fun moments to experience.

FO4 is my favourite Bathesda game. It’s the one I love to return to,

I really have to respectfully disagree. Fallout 4 is an rpg, it’s just anywhere near as in depth as a 3 or especially NV.

Just because it doesn’t have 17 different endings does not make it not a rpg.

You still have character building, you still have decisions to make (even if most are not that impactful to the story), yes you are permanently locked into being Shaun’s dad, but you were permanently locked into finding your dad in 3, and finding Benny and the chip in NV.

It’s just lacking in the amount of dialog choices and ending options. But it is a rpg nonetheless.

Also people are to narrow with the definition now a days. If it’s not a full sand box, with a character creator and 100 different choices to make it’s not an rpg which is silly.

Even single player stories with set characters are rpgs… legend of Zelda is technically one. You’re playing the role of Link, the hero of Hyrule on a quest to stop Ganon and save Zelda. Technically it is an rpg and also an adventure/story teller.

Like the term RPG is not specific to one Niche formula it is literally a blanket.

Bethesda needs to get rid of Emil.

RPG where you role play a lonely astronaut with nothing to do

People who are getting their feelings hurt because someone has an opinion saying it isn’t an RPG.

look at RPGs from other studios, they give you a choice on how you want to do things. How do you free this hostage? How do you talk a boss to stop? And your choices will have impact in the story. It’s basically D&D lite.

Fallout 4 doesn’t really do any of that, just the illusion of it. A part from choosing a faction (to continue the story you kinda have to) there isn’t any real reaction to your choices.

Which is baffling, because Besthodsa in the past have made proper RPGs.

I liked FO4 a lot. But that was the last BGS product I would enjoy. Lots of improvement to make.

BGS needs to return to leaning HARD into open world. One of the best things they do is telling a story in a dungeon or cave or whatnot that isn’t handheld- just bits you find about and read or a tableau you encounter. They’re BIG narrative writing chops just aren’t on the level to be an RPG. Part of this is, I believe, is that they don’t employ actual writers, ala Bioware, to…well…write.

Same with skyrim tho ive never played or expected bethesda games to be serious narrative rpgs

My first playthrough of fallout 4 is probably one of my favorite game experiences. I played as Nate and did things he would do. The problem is trying to play anyone other that Nate or Nora.

That’s why I never really liked Bethesda “RPGs”
Even as far back as oblivion the only real “choices” you have is either not picking a questline to do or actively trying to ignore the triggers that hand you a quest automatically even when you don’t want to do it
The biggest decision in Skyrim was either joining the Dark Brotherhood or killing them, in the whole game that is it
I feel like maybe these games would be better as they are with their writing (If you MUST have Emil writing I mean), just have each character in the games be a set player character with a defined backstory, because that’s as much “choice” as you have at being able to play a role.

Starfield is the gaming equivalent of supergluing your lips around a person’s anus that just ate a Krystal steamer pack with cheese after a night of drinking Evan Williams

I don’t understand how anyone can think Fallout 4 ISN’T an RPG. Compared to WHAT??? It’s one of the most intensely Role-playing games out there! Sorry it’s not New Vegas!

Without mods bethesda games are the vhs equivalent

Just stop. Bethesda games are RPGs. Just because you do not enjoy those games. Doesn’t mean you get to do mental gymnastics to say they’re not RPGs. It’s disengenous.

comapnies dont have incentive to make anything good anymore, if we started punishing shareholder prioritization, it would change.

Tye last true bethesda rpg was morrowind

mod the crap out of it and it’s an entirely new game. ended up not playing it because i had added so many mods there were too many conflicts to 100% fix. so i kept running into transition freezes that i’d have to crash the game.

It’s so fascinating how Starfield was released in 2023 on “”the world’s most powerful console”” and it’s completely outdone in everything by other open world games like Zelda Breath of the Wild and especially Tears of the Kingdom which are running on what’s essentially a toaster at this point

It’s kind of funny that their best/true RPG games are from Obsidian 😢

Your name is Luke, Luke.

Let’s be honest guys Fallout 4 is leagues ahead of Starfield in terms of being a actually fun game you want to play and not Starfield which for the most part feels like a chore of a game as a whole and it ain’t even a debate 😂

100% agree

Fallout 4 is the best game. It introduced me to the franchise then New Vegas is my second favorite.

Starfields problem is they aimed for mediocrity and hit dead center. They didn’t aim to innovate, they didn’t try to create cool, they went boring bill. It’s why I’m worried for ES6, I don’t even know if they can release skyrim quality anymore or if Borefields is what to expect… or worse Fallout 76 crap.

Maybe this a complex question, but what is the difference between an RPG and a Bethesda Adventure game?

for Bethesda “RPG” means “Rocket-Propelled Grenade”.

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