I don’t mind to grind again you had to do it in d2 and d3 too but the problem is levelling takes ages in this diablo

This is my first Diablo game as well but at least I did my research on it and knew what I’m signing up for lol! I’m planning to create a class for each season, so in season 5 I will be out of content unless they add new classes 😅

The real issue is that the vast majority of player’s aren’t even going to be done with the campaign by the time season 1 hits, and starting over at that point is going to feel terrible, esp for more casual players that only play an hour or so a day. THat and not progressing the battlepass with eternal characters, it is not going to be great for casual player retention…

thats what you get for trying to appeal to all the normies

its funny to see people falling for AAA scams, surely a greedy company doesn’t ship a game with the sole purpose to milk its cows, S U R E L Y

i just hate reopen map and altars is just waste of time imo

Problem for me currently at level 73 Sorc are really, really boring stats on items. Also another thing, im getting same drops over and over again… I already have like 5 pair of same „unique” boots, staffs etc. Like wtf…. Only stats are a bit different on each. Also the fact, that you cant change the aspect on your unique is like totally wierd. Just to mention, you actually dont get anything special for salvaging unique item, its just better to sell it. Who tf designed this game?!

Time for a standard league implementation?

battle pass costs money. they never said in the ultimate edition that you would have to reroll to access the content you paid for.

I dunno this was all ridiculously easy to see coming.

I refer you to Aztecross’s (Destiny 2 youtuber) video about how your average D4 player is feeling right now. He’s certainly no casual dad gamer. Probably takes the casual player anywhere from 1-3 months to even hit 100 versus D3 seasons where you get to max level in a matter of hours and start acquiring gear and paragon points right away.

They’ve designed the game to *feel* like getting your class build online and capable is a much longer journey especially with having to do ~80% of all zone content for renown, only to reset it in less than 2 months from launch. They’ve also been told that all new content and battle passes etc. comes via seasonal characters *exclusively*, so have fun playing your irrelevant launch character?

On what planet does your average gamer not see that as a slap in the face and an immediate quit moment?

It is a terrible idea. Finding this out im prob gonna just quit.

i just want them to fix the item drop for druids. unless it is fix and im unaware but right now i hate D4 cause investing hours into gear hunting and getting other classes unique sometimes legendaries makes me not wanna even try.

The fact that u have to get into a 4 man party and spam xp dungeons to reach lvl100 is kinda pathetic. As solo u can literally play foe weeks and never reach 100 while the group reached 100 in 48 hours… wtf

Which games are these people playing that have battle passes without some kind of reset? I wasn’t aware that was a thing.

I got to world tier 4 and if youre telling me I’m supposed to just repeat nightmare dungeons and helltide…i kinda see where they are coming from. Im bored now and only thing I can do is make new build and repeat. Yea no…..im gonna make a new build for season 1 and try but honestly I’m struggling to see the point in going 75 to 100. Literally just to see numbers get slightly bigger.

I am already bored with the game (100 lv barb) and just sitting there waiting for the season to start.. So i can get fresh start 😀

The Entitlement of people will kill off every game, sooner or later.
The outrage is unreal. People really should get a grip and ask themselves why they even play games in the first place.

Everyone seems like they play games for a job and every inch not making progress is a waste of time.

It’s infuriating.

I think an easy solution is to only reset the ladder and have people create new characters if they want to take part of that.
Casuals are not close to level 100 when new season drops yet so let them decide on their own if they want to keep playing or create new.
Hardcore players that want to race can play ladder.

These are 100% casuals who touch aRPGs with like 1-2 hours of gameplay each time they play. The CORE thing about aRPGs is the repetitiveness that they have. Is it for everyone? Absolutely not. But…. EVERY aRPG has it in some way shape or form… D2R/D2 has Magic Find runs, Chaos + Baal runs, Uber level farming, Cow farming. Diablo 3 had Rifts, Bounties & Greater Rifts. POE, while having a FAR bigger end game, still has that repetitiveness that all the others have. Do the story, get to maps, farm maps, farm the 20 different league mechanics or so in the maps & repeat. People who think that like.. The leveling via dungeon resetting was a bug/exploit. Are people who 100000000000% never touched aRPGs. Diablo 2 had: Cow level, Uber level leveling WAY back in the day, Chaos runs, Baal runs, Tristram runs. Diablo 3, while you would just use Rifts to hit level 70 & then boom end game. They’re still farmable 🤣 Path of Exile, while not as elaborate as say D2. We do have resetting Blood Aquaducts for some early levels/Innocence Chambers & then end game we have Coward’s Trial ROTA/Chalupa ROTAs/Legion 5 ways etc. EVERY aRPG has had/has some way to power level someone/people. Never been a bug/exploit. It’s purposely intended. Not having non-seasonal characters not be able to progress a SEASONAL battle pass 100% makes sense and is fair. Don’t buy the 90$ version if you didn’t pay attention to that. Granted, Blizz should’ve elaborated a bit better. But use some common sense people.

So basically youre explaining that there is lack of knowledge in the diablo community about battle passes and seasons. Here the problem, easy to solve 🎉

How did so many people buy a $70 game and apparently not look anything into it besides that it exists

I’m really liking the game, and who the hell still uses twitter, lolz.

seasons and fresh starts are what makes arpgs interesting. Only thing thats probably gonna make me stop playing is farming renown every season.

Hi Zizaran. First of, solid content. Only recently started watching your stuff (Poe league) and really enjoying your mature and informed insight into D4. I think the concern about seasons may stem from that last part where you spoke about “enjoying the time you spend playing the game”. The current gameplay in D4 during certain sections of leveling is deeply boring and just something that I try to push past for the next part. The 70 – 80 grind, the 60 – 70 breaking into tier 4 etc etc. All of these are really not fun but something I try to push through to get to the next power spike where things are awesome again. Playing with friends does help a lot in this case. For me the concern comes in when I have to do the 1 – 100 again (still dont have a 100 char yet) in the new season and it plays similar to now I probably wont stick it out. Just my 5 cents. Keep up the good content!

these tweets hurt my brain, people are really this stupid? Not understanding a new season is essentially a RACE, there would be no point in a race if everyone started at the finish line its that simple. Dont want to race, Dont play the season. SIMPLE AS THAT.

I wonder why those people have this problem… could it be becuase the first hours and hours are just boring meaningless grind when your build doesn’t work and the activities you do are at best tolerable and at worst outright asinine? the extremely polished and fantastic cinematics are not gonna be as interesting for the second, or third time. They become irrelevant.
So when you decide to overproduce the parts for 1st playthrough ad underproduce repeatable content, this is what you get.

I dunno I am majorly disappointed with d4 and th complete lack of innvation. I am bored to death with it.

i was hoping for a “next chapter” feel to the season reset

This is what happens when you make a confusing game and bring people from different genres 🙂 Is this an MMO or is this an ARPG? The game doesn’t know and people don’t know what to expect either 🙂

This is exactly why I haven’t started playing yet, knowing that after doing Beta Weekends 1 and 2, then the Server Slam, playing pre-season then starting ‘for real’ was going to be one start in as many months too many.

Ultimately while it is incumbent on the D4 team to make this clearer in-game, this has been repeated on their website, tweets, videos, etc.. etc… and are really complaints coming through from gamers unfamiliar with contemporrary arpg’s AND haven’t bothered to look at any paraphernalia (aking to not reading the instruction manual).

I can sympathise, but the lack of awareness is not something anyone can prevent – especially in a culture that absolves personal responsibilty. Yes it’s a game, yes it’s a leisure activity, but you hit the point on the head Ziz – either you enjoy playing it for the sake of what it is, or you stop playing it because you simply don’t find it fun. I think there’s a FOMO crowd these days that are fast becoming as toxic and detrimental to the industry as the locusts that swarm from game to game (and ultimately had such a ruinous effect on mmo’s).

this game will maybe be ok-ish after a year of patching, but is incredibly boring in its current state. No motivation at all to go on a season “journey”

These are crybabies of the worst kind. Their comments are written like they have tremendous insight, but they probably didnt have that big an interest in D4 or the ARPG genre to begin with, or they would have found out about how seasons are done before the game even released. I really feel the disconnect too, Ziz is on spot with that. Personally I can’t say its a big loss if the season pass of all things is the make or break point and these people go back to playing Fortnite or whatever game they played before.

yeah ive been seeing people that finish the campaign and theyre like “ok, ive finished the game! time for a new one!” diablo 4 has definitely hit a mainstream audience and many of these people dont get or see the appeal of a seasonal game.

I understand seasons but don’t like them at all

you only see noobs complaining on twitter because those who enjoy the game are busy playing it

thats like saying we didnt loose our chr if we died in hc in d2 lol

Diablo 4 is bad ass Diablo 2 was one of my favorite games when it came out.

the renown grind is the only part that pisses me off

Weeeeeell, you can say you are a diablo2/3 veteran and you don’t know seasons because at the beginning D2 and D3 didn’t have seasons. I played shit tone of D2 in the year 2000 and concept of seasons didn’t even exist back then. Same with D3 – no seasons for hundreds of hours at the beginning.

I played D2 extremely casually when I was a kid. Never had a solid build never beat hardest difficulty. Absolutely loved the game though…had a blast in my own way. I tried D3 and I couldn’t get into it.

Got D4 and am blown away. Easily the best in the series. I’m takin it in strides, farming at my leisure. I’d love to be able to defeat Uber lilith and a t100 dungeon just for LoLs. But I’m not competitive with this game and don’t plan on it.

I’m gonna play my druid pulverisor, and rebuild a new druid during the first season.

I will say though I’m a tad put off by having to farm everything. I guess my goal will have to be with each new season play a different class and build for each one. I’ll do a Werewolf Druid next, or a ranged rogue after. Maybe do a summons necro!

Anyway…my only hope is that it doesn’t turn into wow, where you only can get the best gear if you’re lifeless and play 12 hours a day. It’s time for a Renaissance in RPGs, some people like to get the best gear early and enjoy it rather than always having the false sense of progression through always having a piece a of gear to grind. I play ESO for ten years. You can get your top gear early and just enjoy the challenging content afterword. I want that for this game…

Why tf would I care about a live service Diablo im playing it like it’s single player so fk the battle pass ill just hit 100 and quit easy. Don’t buy anything unless you accept companies won’t let you refund after 2hrs of gameplay rather than how games used to be were you have 15 days. They do this on purpose cause they know they are gonna fk u in the ass.

4:18 Well. You make a good point my friend. As an ARPG player. However I empathize with this tweet as a non-ARPG player, I’ve played a lot – of games in basically every other genre though. I think the core issue here is actually that WHILE playing the game you want to keep building on your work. It is like if in Minecraft, or Sons of the Forest, or frankly most games where you build something it is suddenly removed by someone else then you – or – almost as bad – the game’s new content enforces you to restart, essentially removing your content or at least a huge chunk of it. If you build a character, or whatever – most would naturally want to keep on building without redoing any crumble of it – this is the fantasy most games building something holds on to – building to the infinity – unless that is what you set off to do – like replaying a campaign on ur fav. games.

Season pass/reset in an an MMO masked as an arpg. Laughable.

This is why you check out a product before you buy it. I watched a decent bit of videos and have experience playing d2, d3 and POE. I have a friend who doesnt even wanna touch this UNTIL the first season hits and then begin hardcore playing because of seasonal rewards. But you know, somehow D3 magically did not have seasons ? best comment ever.

New seasons/leagues have always been my favorite part of playing ARPGs. I hope the newer players can give the system a chance and see how fun it can be to have regular resets.

I will preface this comment by saying I’m a long time POE player and I’ve played a lot of Last Epoch as well. I’ve participated in a lot of POE seasons, during many of which I made multiple characters. I’ve made a lot of different characters in Last Epoch since the multiplayer came out as well.

Honestly, removing the need to go through the campaign in Diablo 4 was a mistake. There’s no “map” system or “echo” system like Path of Exile or Last Epoch so there’s nothing to do to level up efficiently in the same manner for everyone. Running through the map doing random stuff just to level up is not fun.

When I started a new character last week and found that the map was completely fogged and NOTHING mapwise carried over, I immediately got off the game for that night. It did not make me want to play. Thank God they are changing some of that, because I honestly would have never touched the game again. But as it is, I still have no interest in playing any of the seasons.

Making a new character in Diablo 4, even after they update the map progression to carry over, does not and will not feel as good as it does in Path of Exile or Last Epoch. In those ARPG’s, you make a new character and go through the story again. Sure it sucks, but you know what to do and you know you’ll be at roughly the same level as always when you are done with it. But making a new character in D4 and just going out into the world sucks. It isn’t fun for me AT ALL.

I honestly don’t know if I’ll play any of the seasons unless they make some big changes, even if I did buy the $100 edition. The biggest thing is the endgame is just not fun for me. The nightmare dungeons SUCK. The mods are so annoying. They don’t introduce fun challenges, it just introduces a lot of ways to piss you off. I just spent the last 6 hours before watching the video doing nightmare dungeons and helltide stuff with two buddies, and I didn’t have much fun doing any of it. But I can do maps or echos for 10 hours straight without even taking a break. I’m know there’s plenty of POE vets that feel the same way, but I know there are some that got sucked in by D4 and I don’t understand how. I wish i enjoyed it but I just don’t.

It’s not Blizzards fault nolifers destroyed the content first week missing sleep then complain about a game that was made more for casuals. If you don’t like this game go to Path of Exile, it’s a great game made for players like you. Blizzard has been listening to our complaints and i’m confident they will make the end game more fun.

I’d be annoyed too if I hadn’t even finished campaign before the new season coming out, however this is not a fault with game design 🤣

*Games being moderately difficult*

“I’m dad with 2 jobs and 3 kids, the game’s too time consuming, you need to make the game easier because dads that should be given a higher priority over everyone else”

Very stupid to exclude normal players from battlepass progress unless they make a season character. I too hate that…almost as much as the dumb decision to not include a global chat.

AFAIK D4 wasnt really marketed as an ARPG – more like an MMO. So players in ‘our’ bubble always were certain about characteristic ARPG features but the general audience not.

I still remember that I started PoE in ~2018 after falling out of love with WoW and I was 100% sure that I would never play seasonal because… what a dumb concept that would be :>
Some things you only understand once you have experienced them.

It’s what Blizzard get for aiming for the casualest possible audience but still trying to cater the game towards the 0,1% top players. Same mistake as WoW.

Asmongold makes the worst people famous

I am not mad. I am just insanely gleeful because i was confirmed right – the game is shallow, hollow f2p quality garbage for 99$ box price. And it died in 2 weeks.

All games technically a waste of time..key word..entertainment..

If Diablo IV is like old and greedy pervert dragon who’s balls are starting to rot then Path of Exile II will be self sure and good looking middle aged knight who can actually satisfy your needs lol

why people f*ing crying so much these days? jeez… people want to have everything, but don’t want to do anything for it. this mentality is getting more and more annoying…

I’m baffled. When I was new to ARPGs (Diablo 2) I was obsessed with making new characters. It would have been surprising for me to get through act 3 before rerolling to a new idea or class fantasy. The opportunity to switch it up with a new class for the season while experiencing new systems seems like it would have been fun even to newbie me.

I think this reaction could have to do with a mentality that reaching lvl 100 is the goal to shoot for, and I believe that is a misguided approach for a new player. There are many ways to squeeze the fun out of an ARPG, so I won’t go around telling anyone how to have fun. But I also think the genre fundamentally is a fun found in the grind. Embrace it, or don’t and stay sane (although a lot less fun).

Could be those Diablo veterans played when internet was not good. I played D2 without internet and enjoyed thoroughly having to discover all things myself or local friends. Even during Dota 1, we did not have internet but we had LAN cafe’s where the meta was local. Of course we were bad at the game but we had extreme fun because everyone was pretty much at the same amount of knowledge of the game and your creativity pays off a lot.

You people have to realize how narcisstic you sound, its literally just the souls fanbase all over again. Company markets to a bigger audience, new audience comes in and has new ideas, old audience gets mad and tries to gatekeep everything well been condecending, new audience gets tired and gives up on game. Stop this whole “I played Diablo 2 I’m a veteran”, your the one creating a disconnect just to stroke yourself off instead of having progressive conversation.

When people hear “seasons” they think like Destiny 2 where it’s new content to do with the characters you’ve been progressing.

I played Diablo 1 when it came out years ago. I’m more into first person games, but decided to give D4 a try because I just love finding cool loot. The story line is amazing and the side quest are too. I bought the edition that included the battle pass because I’m use to COD battle passes. I figured the battle pass must be something after hitting max level. I’m clueless to seasons in D4 and the battle pass. I also don’t rush to level a character and play a lot of Alts. I figure why rush to 100. Now I’m kinda confused. I didn’t do a lot of research on Youtube because I wanted to just play the game and discover everything as I go. Now I’m a bit confused as to why you start a new character each season unless you get something different to do each season rather than just do the same map and quests over and over. I really didn’t expect to play after completing the campaign anyhow. So if it’s fun I’ll play, otherwise I’ll play till I’m bored and move on.

I have levelled several characters in D3 to over 1k para and I have never considered myself a “veteran” player. Guess compared to these guys, I am a veteran or even a hardcore gamer. Unbelievable.

Diablo 2 didnt have “seasons” and it was the best game ever… that’s what old players want imo 😀

The thing that makes me feel out of touch is that I thought seasons and character reset is the best part of ARPGs. It doesn’t exactly force me to try other characters but would push ne to not use the same character again all season

The backlash is because Diablo 4 is particularly poorly designed as a replayable game. Very shallow, very boring. Played D2 and POE for decades. Will not make another char in d4.

Oh noez… I have to play season to progress the “seasonal battlepass”….. really?

I JUST WANT POE 2 OMG FUCK BLIZZARD AND DIABLO 4

So fun to listen to cries of the non arpg players being confused haha, “I wanna have fun like any other arpg player but I dont want to put the work in when new season comes out” the classic mmo/destiny boomers thinking its about being max level doing daily tasks like its a job, pathethic.

I’d be down for Blizzard to do both… separate ladders or whatever… if people want to play the new season on their permanent characters … go for it! Then start a new ladder for the more hardcore ARPG players, to race to the top in the new season.

I totally get where more casual players are coming from, or if they’re coming from something more like a traditional MMO where you don’t start over from level 1. And if they don’t have the time to play for more than 1 or 2 hours a week, starting over would suck – and they wouldn’t even get back to where they started by the time the season reset again… that would feel so defeating.

The grind to lvl 100 is alot easier then the grind to lvl 99 in d2 and unless u played pvp it was kinda pointless anyway here u have uber lilith as a goal.
The problem what makes d4 feel more grindy is that u dont have trading like in d2!
Trading would make this game so much better and rewarding but since blizzard is to stupid and greedy to to monitor an ingame ah thats what happens to the casual audience

the dev could’ve done something interesting like when you hit level 100, you have the option to reset that character or roll another class for the new season, and doing so allows you to keep “level points”, which you can use to allocate into stats or into something similar to the paragon tree. This not only solve the issue of “wtf is the point of grinding this character” but also give seasonal characters purpose. And if you’re a late player you get massive exp boost to catch up to the seasonal players.

Well, this is what happens when you acquire your audience through KFC.

😀 i’m also mad why? because the game should use it’s competition and it’s own predecessors to release with more content…
I would personally forgive them for end game being boring that is what i can live with..
But what i can’t live with is that they launch a Game with a 5 classes that have like 2-3 good build to clear the end game
meanwhile diablo 3 is having so much more..and even POE is having much much more character building
Diablo 4 is too restrictive when it comes to building a character…and paragon boards are boring as hell…
Crafting is terrible…MMO aspect of diablo 4 is ruining my experience because somehow my internet is having 20 ms on wow or lol and 17ms on POE
meanwhile in d4 i’m in 120-160 range with sttuters everytime i go into different map my horse is stuck everytime i go into different map…
and no it’s not my internet

They ruin everything and complain about everything. Cant wait until they are flushed out and burnt out, so Blizzard can focus on hardcore contents for the hardcores. 🖕casuals.

I think if they didnt make the grind to 100 so bad in the preseason then people wouldnt care about releveling. But its brutal to get to 100 right now which i understand is part of the game but for new comers to arpgs and have a life im only 62 and theres no way id even make it to 100 by season 1 im not even half way there. If they dumbed the lvling down a bit pre season and let us try out more then just 1 class too see which we like ( im an altaholic i wont say sorry ) then i think that would of helped. Or have a “test” sever for u can make a class to lvl idk 60 to test skills and aspects and stuff bcus before then hell even then ur build is not good yet and doesnt feel clean to play its still very clunky. ive played other games that have done that but its very far and few between.

I’m an ARPG veteran but still kinda on the fence about the way they’re doing seasons with Diablo 4 because while it is an ARPG they are clearly kinda trying to be an mmo-lite type game. There is WAY more to re-acquire in diablo 4 than any other diablo or path of exile or any other ARPG and re-leveling is going to feel like way more of a slog than it does in those other games. With that in mind, something different might be more appropriate. Maybe carry over ALL our renown instead of just 1/3 of it because honestly the leveling is so slow in this game that its still gonna be a huge chore.

I hate that the default response to the criticisms is “that’s just core to ARPGS”, maybe blizzard should look to innovate on the ARPG genre. I have about 750 hours in POE and this whole seasonal events model is old and redundant. I think it would be a cool ADDITION to the game but not the core design moving forward. I think if they modeled the game more towards the Lost Ark side of things (without pay to win) Blizzard would see much more long term success.

Yeah, I’m good not playing a Blizzard game ever again.

When I first started PoE in 2014, I quit before finishing the campaign because I had the same sentiment as well but as a MMORPG player.
Once I found out the appeal of seasonal content and new updates in PoE, I got hooked to it. IMO, D4 has to offer exciting seasonal contents to make people hop into it first.

I find it fascinating how people apply “meaning” to different things. “What is the point of even playing if you must make more characters etc.” As if the things you are doing on a lvl 99 character are more “meaningful” than on a lvl 10. ARPG’s are very much so games for people that enjoy the journey more than the destination.

ur 2 slow to comprehend .. period.

This is my first ARPG and I’m loving the game and I have to confess I had no idea that’s how they worked lol. I think this actually probably helps to keep the game fresh, I’ll play my Druid in the Eternal Realm and try out new classes in the seasons.

its D1,D2 vs D3, D4. legacy gaming vs modern. old timers also don’t want to roll new characters too.

I’ve seen a lot of this on the D4 reddit, pretty surprising

But your playing the game! Thats whats suposed to be fun right?! xD I think ppl will come around soon.

In PoE I don’t need to pay for seasons. With the game pass does it mean I need to pay over and above the cost of the game ?

Man, I just get annoyed by people like this, this is why I try to avoid forums around any things and/or concepts that I like

It takes like 60-80 hours to hit level 100 with a character. A huge amount of people are nowhere near maxing even their main character, lots haven’t even cleared the msq yet. Now they HAVE to make a whole new character every 3 months to access a battle pass which we can be pretty sure, will be hella grindy in itself. This is great for the hardcore fans who are ready and willing to drop 1000+ hours into the game. But for anyone else, this seems very intense and most probably won’t bother unless there’s an exp boost or level skip with the campaign skip or something.

Diablo 2 and 3 were not released with seasons in mind, they had to add them in after they tried to “fix” their games and broke them but still wanted some cash, so now they just want some cash

issue with seasons in D4 is progression TOO SLOW. 20-30 hrs in POE i can get to endgame, 20-30 hrs in D4 is barely lvl55. D4 have very bad dopamine(upgrades to character/goals reached) to time spent value. im talking Solo here. Solo d4 is BORING and SLOW. Maybe you have fun playing with friends but you can play anything with friends and have fun. 99.99% of arpg players are solo

what bothers me most is all these god dam “game journalist” hopping on the bandwagon , and having zero integrity , its almost as if they have no idea what an arpg is.. when its literally their job

All I hope is you can do the season without max lvl but as a d3 player sence the start I know how most of the season stuff is going to work lol .

From the look of it, its not really the seasons that are the big issue. It’s them making battle pass tied to seasonal characters only. Majority of these complaints would probably leave if they could still get and progress battle pass content on existing characters. It’s a blatant cash grab via FOMO, can’t skip a season without also losing a battle pass if it had something you wanted.

Creating a game from scratch is dumb for each season. Just get rid of seasons.

Bring on the seasons! I’ll have a 100 necro by then, and will be ready to make a Rogue for season 1 🙂

If they are complaining about the fact that they have to play a new character, and were only planning to play a single character in the game, then the game is maybe not for them.

The devs could always make a ‘standard mode’ just like POE.

This way the Veterans get their ‘seasonal grind’ and everyone who disagrees can keep slowly progressing.

The game cannot cater to every nuances of audience because it’s an arpg game that is all about the gear chase and grind or whatnot, people who don’t have time for that core gameplay that makes an arpg, shouldn’t be playing the game to begin with.

No I ain’t gatekeeping and I’m probably coming off as an asshole but if you are a busy person with a lot of stuff in their lives, y’all should just probably back off and take things at your own pace, you don’t have to grind for the bis gear, you don’t have to go for higher tiers just enjoy the game as is and take things at a bite size pace, because what will happen is it will become a tug of war for people who are in line with the arpg gameplay loop vs the more casual people that works 8 to 9 and it’ll do more harm than good and confuse the devs.

There are two main problems I think: 1st leveling to 100 takes to long as it includes paragon, and not being 100 before the reset feels unfinished. 2nd in t4 mobs should also start scaling from 50 because t3 just feels like a waste of time for the most part

Why is anybody concerned what the casuals think? Most of them will be gone playing Spiderman 2 or Starfield in a couple of months.

Sigh, I guess Blizzard really needs to explain stuff to folks.

You’ve been trolled my man, all reddit posts are like this now. The ones roleplaying dads/casuals vs the hardcore fans (or trolls)

I stopped playing a week after release because the real game doesn’t start until season 1. It’s basically like we’ve been playing the extended beta until season 1 starts. Games still not finished

I really hope Bliz does seasons like POE, most of D3 seasons were horrible

Currently the end game is extremely dull and lackluster. I feel sorry for the people who didn’t understand how arpg’s don’t innovate and stick to the same stale seasonal design philosophy beliving it’s okay rather than adding more horizontal and vertical progression by raising a level cap and adding more gear. It’s an old design that should be changed. Just because all Arpg’s have this design doesn’t mean it’s a good design, it’s lazy by every metric and defines a studio as incapable of furthering a genre beyond what it is already. Just happens this is very profitable for the companies so why bother when people are paying for mediocrity.

haha wait. there are people who actually think that repeating a dungeon is a bannable offense? LMAO. shut the $$$$$ UPPPPPPPPPPP

The BP should be accessable to Eternal players. Since it isn’t they are forcing players into seasonal who don;t want to play that way. I never played the seasons. Always the perma servers in all Diablo and POE. I don’t enjoy re-leveling over and over. There are people who do, nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with Eternal/perma players.

I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore player even though I often play 3 days straight,my only problem was the renown but I’m already over that and no longer mind it, starting over is just par for the course for ARPG’S.Can’t wait to start season 1 with my Blighted CE Necro with all the knowledge I’ve gained up until this point

didnt seasons come because of the duped sojs and the diablo clone? 😀

oh well weeds out the none diablo players seen this coming XD

The main thing I want for this game is the ability to skip to lvl40 on an alt after beating the campaign. I hit lvl 75 on my rogue and want to try the other classes out but i just feel like I’m trapped. I just really don’t want to dump another 6 plus hours into another character just to get them to lvl 50.

Seasons came later in the arpg history, at the beginning the diablo franchise started what we called back then graphical roguelike or whatever it was called back then, roguelike have a very long history before diablo came and was already “set in stone”. The point here is that they just slapped in graphic into an already existing game design. And it was done more because of this new technical ability than anything else (its not like they invented it at all). Seasons aren’t really key feature, might be for you because you are a younger audience than me and always played arpg with seasons, wasn’t always like this. The repetitive aspect was a core feature in roguelike, your character wasn’t supposed to live eternally but die, and then you’d have to rerun the game with an other character, which is why those features are still core in arpg. Modern Arpg is not all of the gender. It’s a bit like some of the WOW fan that seam to think Wow is all about mmorpg, when in fact it’s only a specific subgenre of it. In any case D4 isn’t really an Arpg in my book, it’s more of a mix and tbh more a themepark mmo for me at least. Gating their micro transaction behind their season is lowkey, sorry, one more reason those modern game designed as cash cow aren’t cutting it for many people.

Only thing I don’t like is leveling is way too slow for seasonal, for eternal sure whatever. But heck I feel like I’ve played a lot and still not 70.

It amazes me how streamers can interact with twitch chat and youtube comments every day, and not realize how dumb most people are.

Idea:
S1 starts we do it as intended.
S2 starts and now s1 bp and content moves to eternal realm for people not wanting to regrind.
S3 begins and s1 is removed from eternal and S2 bp and content moves to eternal realm.
Keeping both player bases fresh and happy.

D2 to D3 – big shift, lots of new features and mechanics
D3 to D4 – copy and paste with new graphics, new features boring and a waste of time. Story was terrible, I think only one cinematic was half decent.

Having the battlepass tied to a season is definitely a bit strange. Like, there’s nothing wrong with having on an eternal realm char at all. The grind for S1 will suck and to be honest I’m a little worried that levelling a second character without the campaign for S1 might get stale. I have 1 level 62 rogue and am saving levelling a new class for the season.

This is why gatekeeping is a good thing. The ARPG genre is not large, but it is unique, with unique progression and a faster pace of character development. Meanwhile, every other “live” game has for years been slowly but surely turning into the same homogenous blob of mechanics bastardized from the MMO genre and progression that is meant to keep you on a vertical treadmill until the end of time. This leads to power creep, it leads to content obsolescence (often as soon as a new patch comes out), it leads to an insane reliance on FOMO to keep players logging in every day, it leads to things such as time gated and time locked content so people don’t consume the “current content” too fast. ARPGs avoid all of these issues, they have fast paced progression, all the content in the game is always relevant, there is no endless treadmill as your character always has an endpoint… seasonal resets enable these things.

Then you have people who know absolutely NOTHING about ARPGs coming and demanding that D4, literally one of maybe 3 current active ARPGs that are pretty good and shows future promise, turns into one of their Destiny esque abominations, there are PLENTY of those, but only a few ARPGs… excuse me for telling them to get the hell out, to either educate themselves on what this genre is, or to go play something else more to their tastes. I’m not gonna be quiet as clueless twitter users attempt to ruin a genre I enjoy.

The loot sucks. Players wouldn’t have all these other gripes right now if they were preoccupied with a fun and engaging item chase, but there isn’t because this loot system is total ass.

If you only have one hour to play a video game today you chose to prioritize your like like that? You have responsabilities ? Your day as a gamer is just done and you have other things to do , let the game be for gamers and dont invest hours into a game that takes 1000s of hours to get the best gear anyway..

I think the main issue is how crazy long it takes to level in d4. I dont wanna have to level another character when it takes me 100+ of super hard grinding to even get close to levelcap

This is the biggest example of consumer stupidity, like if you dropped 70usd (or 110 aud) and didnt even do a little bit of research im sorry thats on you. As far as I can tell blizzard never hid this, and most arpg players fully expected this, so the only people who are surprised or confused are those who didnt do their research.

From a more sympathetic perspective i also dont know if i can be fucked re-grinding renown, but beyond that idm.

I played a few seasons in D3, but D4 is so much more tedious in terms of leveling and grind. I don’t know if I will have the time to really take part in seasons and make the most of it

These people. It’s like they’re downloading Counter Strike and expect a beat em up game like Tekken. lol

I don’t see the appeal of playing eternal realms when season 1 hits, I don’t understand these people. Starting fresh with everyone else is the excitement of the game, it’s what brings us veteran players back. Why would anyone want to literally grind the same character eternally never finding upgrades because eventually you will hit your cap and you’ll get bored and quit.

I have a friend who “burnt out” at level 25 barb. He got bored and I understand him – playing the most boring class in world 1/2 in act 1-2 is as boring as it gets. Now I know that it gets more fun when your build is zooming and there are a bit more (still no enough) mobs on the screen, though honestly the gameplay doesn’t change that much as only new thing are helltides after campaign.
But people like him are so many and they haven’t seen anything from the game yet!
Another thing – I don’t get the unhealthy obsession of getting to level 100.. why do you want that? why? For uber lilith? don’t think there is any incentive to kill her both for casuals and hardcore players. Yet there seems to be the logic from these people that thats the goal.

I play PoE every league, when I stop having fun that league I stop playing until the next. I thought this was the standard for all arpgs. Highly confused. The game itself is so fun (PoE) that the league progression just means I get to re-experience that fun every new league from scratch, instead of feeling like I need to grind dozens of divines for my next upgrade on an endgame build. These people seem to be playing for the extrinsic reward of getting levels and loot but forgetting that they are playing a game who’s sole purpose is fun.

i don’t really care for seasons, I don’t plan on doing any of that mess I was just waiting to see if season uniques and such were going to come to eternal. My current problem with the game is the constant and unending tide of items that are 20 levels below my character. I’m level 61, doing T15-18 nightmare dungeons and all I get is unusable level 40-50 gear and it honestly have not gotten an upgrade to any of my items since level 45 probably.

I don’t necessarily think it’s weird that people didn’t realise, like you said if you hadn’t played an arpg why would you. But on that one comment, as a new dad that also has little time to play that’s why I love diablo.

With seasons if you don’t get a chance to constantly play you can just dip into the ones that work for you for as long as you want👌🏻

Yeah, same boat as you Ziz, that dude who said D3 didn’t have seasons really make me do a double take. I’ve been playing since D1, played heaps of PoE, last epoch and now D4. It boggles the mind they CBF doing a little research to see how seasons are normally implimented. Also crazy to just say “hell no, this wont work, fix…” without even giving an idea of what they would prefer.

That ‘journalist’ just makes clickbaits, basically a spam generator, it should be disregarded as a human being, it’s just an ad views generator

I like the gameplay but the story threw me. Each act seems like it was written by a different person who didn’t know what was in the other acts.. the narrative as a whole doesn’t seem consistent or even cohorent to me. At the start in act’s 1 and 2 lilith is clearly a bad person especially with donans son but then when she comes back into the story at the end now she’s been displayed more sympathetically and there is no connective tissue explaining the stark change from the start to the end of the game. The epilogue really threw me too.. the brotherhood penitent showing up and attacking just seem to make no sense at all.. we spent act 1 side by side brother in arms with them and now out of no where litterally after the game is finished there is a 10 second scene were we kill them and are now enemies and i feel like im the bad guy in that scene.. like wait what? the story really seems fragmented and confusing to me. Each act on its own is a decent sub story but it honestly feels like 6 seperate stories glued together after the fact.

so i feel like it wont matter.. look at seasons in d2 that shit was always played so i mean like we all knew that it was gonna be like this. its only the new players that are crying but apart of seasons is literally doing the race and leaderboard
people need to understand that , the whole game is based on finding new metas and being the fastest through, and melting dungeons, the game is literally based off moving forward if htat makes sense . its rinse and repeat, the point of seasons is dont get attached cuz a your seasonal character moves to eternal for starters at the end of season and b it keeps it fresh so your not just on one type of game play as the game doesnt really change as its a dungeon farming game with the whole purpose of gear and time flex. the games have always been a 10 yr game, dm made a great point, people watch shit and want it now, dont wanna grind etc cuz they already know instead of going in blind. the point of releasing season later is so they can do balances in the first moment of release , see how everyone plays how the game handles etc like further past the beta literally. so like we seen of course there has been updates to play around and there will be a major one before season release for the season, the pass and any balances and bug fixes as now its an online thing with pvp areas, id not be surprised if eventually they add a arena mode like immortal so we can all fight in arenas and find games, there will be group finders to lets be real, it will all come.
firs thing think about this, they release the game season comes, so the first characters you make dont get attached to, use them as a lesson then bang speed through game keeping the best gear for later when you merge seasonal and non seasonal.
but really people just need to understand its like a sport season yeah, you start fresh with zero points, at the end of the season you start again, but you get to keep your old jersey and play with it in an exhibition type setting (eternal) and understand seasonal characters have a major chance to gain better gear and at the end transfer into eternal and access that gear between character’s.., they will most likely introduce sets again like they do every game as its the same game just now in the future. people just need to ask them self , what they want out of the game for starters, b its a 10 year game this shit wont be over night and if you followed over to play due to hype of others and clout expecting something else, possibly your own fault if you didnt do the research .ALSO by making the pass only available to season characters makes sense to in a way, it keeps it fresh and its like the competitive part of the game , again no one is holding a gun to your face going buy it, screaming unfair that i cant pay for it and think i can let it sit is silly, look at all games with a pass its the season, this is the time period you have to do it, again you can still do the season and not even buy the pass, its just cosmetics? idk why people are crying lmao who cares about them literally if you dont like the game dont play it and or dont comment ahha its that simple cuz for the people that actually want to play the game its their opinion that matter as they will play it for the next 10 years or for how ever long until the next title in the series if there is another . i wont pretend there isnt some cons to the game in my opinion but again its just an opinion and apart from that the game is great, fuck what these idiots that hate on it say. half of them want to play offline with shit boosted so they can seem like they are good anyway XD and anyone that reckons

Twitter was a mistake.

the problem with diablo 4 is that there’s no point to level past 70 for the time it takes.

going to finish out grinding out my rogue for now an dplay the first season with the first battle pass, ill reserve judgement after but so far the more i play this the more i just miss how poe plays lol

The game is just not in a good state for seasons right now. It’s slow, grindy in a bad way, and lacks an overwhelming number of QoL necessities. Leveling scaling is an atrocious mess. Player power fantasy of feeling their character get strong is basically entirely absent–at least as far as I can tell. I got to around level 60 and quit. Insanely boring, and that’s from a guy who played 1000s of hours of D2 and D3. The foundation of D4 is pretty solid, but it has a long way to go. Maybe in a few seasons we will have something worth talking about.

The unfortunate truth is that there’s very few ways to make both the “1 hour a day dad” and “8+ hour a day no lifer” happy at the same time.
The problem is if you design the game around either, it’ll make it incredibly unappealing for the opposite archetype, and the middle ground tends to make both unhappy.

holy shit ziz name dropped gaia online lol. i should go back and see how much my account is worth XD

People don’t read, what a surprise!
Blind hype and advertisement andies in a nutshell.

D3 allowed you to rebirth your main. It’s a a bit more palatable than making new characters.

They basically thought D4 will be the new WOW 2.0? The game needs a lot of change certainly in leveling and the time you spend on it to 100, since if this is a seasonal process it should be a bit faster especially in NM dungeons, but they did adress it already and we have to wait the changes in the next patch and season 1 theme as well. I think a healthy way to level would be max. 50 hours and not like 100 or 150 hours grinding like it is right now, at least when seasons are starting.

As an ARPG newbie with an MMO background I think I’m mostly sad because there’s so many elements of an incredible mmo style game here with Diablo 4 and even though I vaguely understood there was seasonal content in D3, I was also pretty startled to hear that all my work is essentially erased every 3 months. I realized I was projecting MMO ideas on the game, which is my fault, but I was hoping there would be large amount of endgame group content and pvp at 100 that lent itself to long periods of character building and completionist content similar to how WoW/Runescape works.

Hearing that the game is essentially just about permanently leveling and the “fun” of killing 100,000 monsters to eventually get a bis gear drop that will become a meaningless waste of time like 30 days later – it just doesn’t mesh with why I would want to invest time in a game like this.

(I’m really just mad because I’m realizing a Diablo 4 MMO would be an incredible game that I wish I could have now.)

D4 could have been so awesome, if someone at Blizz just cared enough….so much time since D3, so much time to look at the competition in the genre, learn, take what works, experiment,…..But no, 70 dollar reskin of D3 it is. And even then, it just look lazy on the part of the devs, how many seemingly small QoL bugs still arent fixed.

2:17 “Diablo 2 and 3 didn’t have seasons”…. when I heard that, I twisted my head allot more sideway then you did Zizaran. Diablo 2 basically INVENTED Bnet Seasons. The whole point was to start a new character when the new season came around…

About seasons, as Diablo and other Arpg “players” we understand to make new character each season, but for me the problem is that each time you change class the progress is not global, like D3 paragon, fells such a waste of time if you want to try new class. Not all of us are making money out of gaming so the point of view is totally diferent from a 10k+ earner a month and a “regular” human.
The game has many other biger problems than this though, things of wich many of us pointed since day 1 but it seems that they will be fixed from season 2 and not even all of them…. Part of the reason I stoped playing a game I spent 90eu on. So I rather trow the money to the bin than being part of a statistic which shows “ah they still play so we are doing a good job”.
Few understand ( certainly not the devs) that criticism we bring is preciselly that we are first of all gamers who want’s to see the games (which we pay for, not geting it for free like those who only praise milk and honey about their product) to be great, to see their potential beyond greed.
If Diablo 4 wont make radical changes and addition, similar to the season 28 in D3 at least, more people will migrare or occasionally play it.
Ive read some of the changes that POE2 will make, especially to the “link system” , with the gems making it easier to understand, so new or casual players (aka most of D4 player base) would be really happy about.

As long as it doesn’t reset battle pass cosmetics or have me start over with my characters appearance I’m fine with the reset I guess

Lol. love that quick “oh shit what is it that I say again ? Oh yeah, ‘Try to die…’ … phew, nailed it.”

It has been really eye opening for sure. I have 500hrs in PoE, 4 characters and have played 2 seasons (Sentinel and Crucible). 3 days ago I literally killed The Maven for the first time.

In many ways, you and I are closer as player type and target audience than me and the casuals in that thread. And you are literally 30K hours ahead of me. How much time do they wanna dedicate to this game?!

This is what happens when a gaming company wants to appeal to “all audiences”. You can only make a game for a percentage of gamers. The rest of those gamers are going to feel deceived into having purchased a product that isn’t truly intended for them despite what they were told through marketing.

As the dad of 69 kids that plays 15 minutes a year, it’s outragous that I’d have my progress reset just like in literally every other Hack&Slash game!! /s

A loud, abrasive minority? Say it ain’t so.

I stopped playing for a while after my lvl 90+ character. A lot of stuff are just product of lazy designs for a premium game that I paid for. What’s makes it more awful is, the game has a well laid off monetization system so you spend more $ on cosmetics and battle passes, which cannot be seen on other aspects of the game. Game doesn’t even have a crafting system. Imprinting aspects and rerolling a single affix is not crafting guys. Again, lazy design.

It’s because of the generation gap between ARPG players and modern gaming. Gaming used to be about fun and enjoying your time doing what you want. Now, it has shifted to accomplishment based gameplay. If your not making progress in a game, your not having fun…. if your younger. This is just conditioning over time.

New season new character

Leave it to blizzard fans to complain about literally everything and anything. It’s getting exhausting being a gamer in 2023 having to listen to all this bullshit drama.

I’m glad I’m not the only one confused by the anger. There are many valid complaints about the game, but it having seasons is not one of them. It’s basically the point of an ARPG.

the whole point of seasons is to keep the game fresh. if you only have an hour every couple days dont expect to be catered to. people are so fucking entitled its insane

As a d2 vet of 20 years…. while im less excited for d4 seasons, new ladders were and still are my favorite parts of d2. Hopefully some of these folks see the light 😉

I understand how everything works. But my question is why? Like why does it have to be the same as every game previously? Give the players options. If I personally would rather play my original character within the new seasonal content why should I not be allowed to? If you would rather start fresh on a new character so be it.

Why is this crazy to you? The only people stupid enough to want to play Diablo 4 are just casuals, the real D2 veterans know this game was dead on arrival

Really? Ok I am also amazed.

it increases player retention and engagement across longer periods of time while allowing the devs to keep content fresh/varied, makes sense to me

I think if they buff xp for nightmare dungeons, hell tides and tree of whispers, this would make leveling more enjoyable. Seasons are the best part of arpgs.

The game is fucking boring

The games core mechanics just aren’t very fun man.

Its literally the best ARPG out. 👌 the one gripe I have, along with like 90% ober everyone else is the damn renown grind. 😂 if you wanna cry about leveling in a game go play DCUO where you can just buy your levels 😂 a bit more balancing and this game has the potential for the best ARPG ever. And I love me some diablo 2, Astonia 3, Warhammer 40k chaos bane, Sacred 2. 🤌❤️‍🔥💯

tbh this game is pretty boring. I’m at 82 and gave up. Get zero loot and the exp gain is too slow. You reach level 60 or so and that’s the endgame. Complete failure. All these years and this is the best they could come up with? No matchmaking, missing a billion QoL changes, didn’t steal any good features from their competitor (PoE)

I have no idea what the problem really is. You have the game, you play the campaign, you play whatever content you want, you level whatever character you want. If you are bored you drop it and move on, if not, keep playing. If it has Seasons or not doesn’t have anything to do with this at all. And I have no idea why does it even matter, if this casual player have no intention on keeping on playing the game after the initial campaign and stuff.

U playing a game for casuals what do u expect?

They are not necessarily casual players. D4 was sold/marketed as a sudo MMO with ARPG elements. The progression pace feels more like an MMO than a typical ARPG. Parts of it do play as an MMO and I think many players can see the makings of a great persistent Diablo game. Unfortunately, the developers haven’t followed through fully on making that type of game as of yet, and might never do so. Many of the systems are pretty simple and who knows what the release cadance is going to be for expansions.

The ARPG seasons are there to promote player retention and engagement while also bringing in fans of the previous ARPG games, but because of the new audience the game has attracted this development plan may backfire for a few reasons.

Won’t know for sure till season 1 starts and we all get to see what Blizzard has planned to keep the folks not interested in just grinding engaged with seasonal content. I expect they will have to do something for folks on the eternal realm who are only interested in leveling a character once if they want to keep them around.

I don’t even mind them being so stupidly entitled to go blindly into a genre they have no experience in, but I do mind that they “express themselves freely” and spread misinformation. People like this are supposed to be looked at as equals, when the amount of research they’ve done equates to their playtime per week/30 microseconds

それ言うたらゲームが時間の無駄や

IMO they should have released with season 1 ready or let our first characters be transferred since it’ll will be coming so soon playing a charter for like a month and a half before having to reset is kinda lame

I think this is not addressing the real issue of seasons.
Seasons were created on Diable 2 to prevent the sale of items going for thousands of dollars.
It had nothing to do with keeping gameplay fresh or exciting by resetting player progress.
Maybe this did create an aspect of the game that some of the playbase enjoyed more than others, but this was not to enhance gameplay in any way other than to devalue the influence whales had using RMT.
Players are getting punished to combat RMT and some players have grown to love that punishment.

I love ARPGs and I loved POE. I will say though the reason I stopped playing POE was the reset every 3 months, it gets old and annoying seeing the same story. I can play endgame content with a main over and over, but Blizzard trying to implement resets with new seasons is silly. Blizzard has proven creativeness so why couldn’t they use that creativity to have seasons without resets and keep the players engaged and make the game harder/more interesting. I can understand if they release a new class then you would have to restart in new content, eventually leading back to the same game where everyone else would be. I just see them using this as a way to try and hype players in to monetize. I don’t know about you but when a new season is released in POE I don’t play my old characters. I want to be where everyone else is at. It sounds like this will be another POE and I’d rather play POE if I had NO CHOICE. POE has an average player base of 30k a month which is great, but they are true ARPG players and POE has MUCH more to offer with builds. With Diablo, it’s mostly casual to general hardcore gamers. It just won’t fly especially with the lack of micromanaging and complexity, with only 6 skills and tons of clicking…

Also as a side note TELL BLIZZARD TO ADD A MAP OVERLAY!!!

d4 is basically a refined version of d3 RoS. also the music is really weak.

The game is a big pile of shit imo, seasons is the only thing that can save it.

This game is missing something or some people*

D4 fucking sucks.

cant just mention Gaia Online like that and not expect us to remember being pre-teens, dressing our avatars as naruto characters, doing big puzzles for in game currency to trick out our cars and buy cloths while we explored online dating with what maybe were other kids our age (hopefully).

I do find it surprising that you can’t progress the battle pass on an eternal realm character. I think it would be fine to allow that. I think the people complaining about having to start over are ones who haven’t made it very far to begin with.. I’m almost 92 and let me tell you.. fresh start sounds great.. I’m only going for 100 bc I said I would when I was like level 60.. regrets.. Honestly anything beyond 80ish when you’re basically full BiS (minus perfect rolls ofc), you’re basically only playing to get to level 100. It is what it is tho. Filthy casuals.

remember being excited for seasons back when I was 12 playing diablo 2, still excited for seasons. How are some of these ‘d2 vets’ so confused by the idea?

a mom or dad gamer that only has an hour to play per day, could literally say 90% of any video games waste their time lol some of these threads are brain dead af

Diablo Immortal did a lot of stuff wrong, but they nailed seasons. You keep your character and all the time and effort put into it and are able to play it through new and challanging content every new season. They should have made it like this

Edit: what the actual f did u say!?! “You are not making permanent progress into your like unless you are turning in into a job”? My dude, everything you do in life is permanent and stays with you, every scar, memory and experience. You don’t just respawn as a toddler and get to re-experience life from scratch with all you know. Stupidest comparrison in the history of the world lol

The best part is that this ISN’T NEW… D2R and D3 do this already….. There are just too many new people who don’t understand and that is their problem.

Headline: Water is Wet.

So you seemed pretty non helpful and I don’t even get the point of the video, was it new players don’t understand how Diablo works?…last time I played Diablo was more than a decade ago, I don’t remember there being seasons. You definitely aren’t an ambassador for the game genre you seem to like, more like a gatekeeper. Let me clue you in to those not willing to spend 35k hours of our life on a game, this means you might play a few hours a week, so how can you fully enjoy a racing seasons with twits that play 10 hours a day? The answer is seasons make that aspect of the game unenjoyable for your average married working adult, or really anyone looking for a casual play a few hours a week game. That’s okay, I’m guessing that isn’t your demographic, just don’t belittle those who have more going on in their life than racing to the top of the next season.

I was excited that D4 seems to be catering towards the ARPG enthusiast audience more than D3, but conversation threads like this scare me. I guess it’s not a big deal though, if D4 turns into casual heaven like D3 I guess it’s just more free time for me to play PoE.

Seaons worked so well for POE because of the economy though, which D4 dont have yet. But yea all this tone deaf drama could have been avoided if Blizz just made it very clear the “base game” is Eternal realm, and the seasons are temp “race like” realms.

These people are the reason we can’t have anything good anymore. They think they are entitled to everything and they keep whining until either they get what they want or you get canceled. You can’t make them happy ever even if you give em whatever they want. They’ll just find something else to ruin for those who enjoy it.

Shit i can care less about a stupid battle pass 🤣.

I care about how boring diablo 4 really is when other diablo clones are doing so much more for their games while blizzard is all about copy and paste cause they never can come up with good ideas when it comes to diablo 🤦🏼‍♂️.

But if people wanna get mad over a dumb battle pass then so be it even though its dumb as fuck 🤣

They freaking baited and got everyone who who paid-90-100$ for the inclusion of season 1..if weren’t for the extra cash spend,you’d see a MASSIVE drop off already…bad take idc if its an ARPG..nobody takes the character we like the least to start with…we all take the one we wanna main and turns out that’s the one that progresses nothing come season 1

I thought they said you have to do the Lillith statues again but this time they will be marked on the map, that is if you collected them all befor.
Did i missunderstand them?

Heavens know why Blizzard even catered/pandered to the casuals in the first place. Every facet of the game has been dumbed down to appease them yet they can’t conceptually grasp the fundamentals of the Diablo genre 😂. This game wasn’t made for us D2 fanboys who’ve been playing D2 for the past 20 years and consequently the Dads with 11 kids and hour long intervals to play the game are outraged… let them stew

seasons = boredom

Give eternal realm players their own season experience, independent of ladder players who want to make a fresh start.

I do NOT get the controversy other then maybe these are folks that have NEVER played a Diablo game.. always been this way even before they called them Seasons we had ladders and had to make a new toon every time the ladder restarted

Makes me think of games like diablo 2 where I know the game well enough to grind to lvl 80+ in a season start on day 1… or diablo 3 where I’ll get max level and just grind for gear. D4 the leveling is much much slower unless you exploited the dungeon system with a party… single players with limited time to play are feeling fomo when they see others reaching max level and bis gear while they struggle to break level 60-70 and get mediocre gear solo. I wish d4 had a party lfg system to help bridge the gap

I didnt play a lot of D2, and even less D3, but I was never aware they had seasons like PoE.

arpg’s dont HAVE to have seasonal resets though. 😐

Idk, I played D3 and I think the Destiny Structure is way better, you get a yearly expansion with multiple seasons a year, and everything carries over

The funny thing is you think about it destiny 2 is technically a arpg just in a different way. And you can use the same character. And it’s a live service game. And before it wasn’t free to play destiny 2 that is you had to pay for some thing don’t ask me i got destiny 2 when it went free to play. Sow again why not do the same thing in Diablo 4 you can use the same character. It can’t be that hard to do or can it. Im not a programmer.

So, the idea was: mix up 2 generes to make playerbase wider; make a GIANT marketing company to have much more playerbase; ignore fact that new playerbase is actualy new; ignore previous problem(?).
I realy interesting to see what happens in season 1. Looks like all the plan was in take money on preorders and realise day.
Anyway, diablo 4 have SO MUCH potential to realise. And yet many unrealised potential. If only Lilith would stay alive after bosfight and lead us to the endgame as mentor.

I’m a veteran. And I’ve got bored of it. They could have done something different with D4. Could have.

ITT: people pretending that Path of Exile players don’t hate going through the campaign again. Intentional obtusity is unbecoming.

The only thing for seasons though, is how much time it takes to 100. If you don’t spam farm the best dungeons( who got nerfed). So when they release the season, it’s going to be even worse, cause by then, all good dungeons are nerfed to hell.
I hope when they announce the season, there’s something about more exp in it. Maybe a new world tier with double the exp of tier4.

Im having a blast. As a diablo 2 player, seasonal resets are a great way to keep everything fresh. Not looking forward to the renown reset but other than that im excited for it

There is absolutely NO downside to letting people use their Eternal Realm Characters for Season. You want them to buy your stupid Battlepass and at the same time you are telling the guy that has 2 children and a mortgage to cover that he should get unemployed to play your game 8-12 hours a day so he can grind out the stuff he just payed for. Thats absolutely insane to me. The people i am talking about are those who made the Diablo Franchise the success it is today by being such avid fans back in the day. Guess what time kept going and those people are in their early 40s now and have a life besides videogames, unlike Streamers, schoolkids and unemployed people. Give us the option to Clone a Eternal Realm Character for Season and/or make a fresh one. If a character is cloned that character is excluded from the leaderboards, which is the only “competitive” aspect of a Season. What difference does it make to anyone what character i use to grind out paid for but timegated content on a treadmill? You loose nothing if i get my shit the way i want with the character i made and enjoy playing, instead of rolling a new toon that i have no attachment to and will mostlikely delete after season ends. And if you are not willing to let us participate in the season then at least let us grind the Battlepass in the Eternal Realm. You want our money and we are probably willing to give it, but i and many others are not willing to jump through hoops for you just because you think you have to adhere to some weird assumption that its an ARPG and a season has to work like this.

Huge PR campaign attracted lots of plebs to this game. This is normal stuff except these people will whine much on social networks (i sometimes think some “veteran gamers” spend more time on twitter than in actual games) and there is a possibility blizzard will listen to them and change some aspects of game. After some time this mass of temporary random people will get bored and move on to other stuff, and actual d4 players will be left with all that crap to play with. I’m not talking about exactly this “battle pass complain”, though it can hurt a game too in a long way, it’s unpredictable right now.

so ive paid for a battle pass i may not get? i may not be able to fully take part this first season due to irl crap…. and now im being told i cant progress that battle pass with my existing character? thats a bad design…

Many of us sitting here are exactly like you i.e. “huh”. I’m guessing most of the people complaining have never played an ARPG before? – or never played a game before?
Obviously they don’t like it, but there you go.

I don’t think its really a ‘disconnect’. A lot of these people just seem to think that games need to be tailored to them and how they want to play. Somehow they have lost sight of the simple fact that if you don’t like what a game offers then don’t play it. It’s almost like cancel culture is spreading into video games. “If it makes me unhappy then it has to be deleted from existence”. It’s such an entitled mentality, holy beans.

The fact that people were mad at farming xp is ridiculous, but this situation where people are mad because they didn’t know that diablo seasons is fresh start is hilarious.

ARPGs do not have “resets”. Games you can own. Games are complete. These are deceivers who want you to pay for NOW content they plan to delete later. They host a service instead of a stable product. Its why ARPG retention rate is so generic and the games are always in beta for a decade…

If POE would make a Standard game with options for league content on a checklist… ppl be playin alot more. Ppl would be needing more tabs like a crack addict.

POE needs new ownership ASAP but it isnt something specific to GGG. Almost nobody is providing gamers what they actually want, it is almost insane this number of programmers must be F tier gamers and the staffs dont listen. We are in an era wherr Runescape players got more from their creators than poe/D4…. Sad how the tables turned.

why is everyone saying battle pass is a content…

I thought it was complete bullshit to level a new character each league (circa 2015) until i played it and each new league start character was a breath of fresh air. Unless they make it a chore casual players might start to get the fun of it.

These ppl have to be some of the dumbest on the planet. The only major problem with the game is it takes way too long to level. Poe is so much faster to get to 90. I’ve played quite a bit and only have an 80 SC and a 46 on HC.

I played a lot of diablo 3 and loved the seasons. This is just missing the season journey rewards and sets and I’ll feel right at home.

Long term poe player here, I can’t wait to play a new character and build for season, I might even run druid again and do a different build this time. People be crazy, it’s an arpg

Starting new characters is the whole point, the game is designed around it. But……….giving somesort of Battlepass to Eternal players is not a bad idea. Some people play so little that Seasonal characters wouldnt make sense for them to invest time into.

Take out the battle pass

I mean I’ve spent years complaining how frustrating and irritating that leveling through POE’s campaign is, but d4 also isn’t forcing people to play the campaign, so I’m cool…

That said, getting new players in the genre is also hopefully health for the overall genre of games. I think GGG’s ideal turnout is that d4 turns into a gateway drug for POE.

What they should have done is let the new players know their plans of content aside from seasons. before seasons existed diablo players looked forward to the expansion. let them know there is content, idk its a weird situation.

I’ve played since 6.6 and I’m level 87 right now. I’ve been doing the campaign, altars and side quests while leveling up to around 50-60. It was tedious and felt very unrewarding and time consuming. Which is “fine”, it’s just one of those reasons where I dislike doing this content like in poe where you do the campaign every season. It’s not fun at all so when I see a new season I think of how horrible the campaign is and just nope out. After 60 I started doing nightmare sigils and they’ve been pretty fun. That’s more in line what I expected out of an arpg in the first place so this I like. Now the problem is as I’ve spent a lot of hours in the game so far I feel like I want to maybe play another class. If I started doing that then I’d never hit level 100. It’s going to take me a LONG time to reach level 100. Probably several weeks more at the very least.

my biggest concern about the season is the T0 uniques like harlequin crest and grandfather. The game doesn’t have a player driven economy so people will literally go entire seasons without getting their bis item. Also trading is not a thing. There is literally no reason for a trade button because you cant trade anything of importance.

Quin made a good point – these normies are focusing on the end-point instead of the journey when it’s the journey of building a character that makes arpgs great. Maxing out a character is generally when you stop playing but these people are acting like that’s when you begin… where’s the fun in starting a season like that???

As others have said though, the MMO style side-quest dominant nature of the lvl up is daunting

WHAT, D2 LOD had ladder.. I feel like this has to be a joke.

I love the season resets, just like older titles. It puts everyone on an even playing field again to see who can reach the pinnacle levels fastest; and it’s a BLAST.

ARPG’s are based on the ‘carrot on a stick’ gameplay model. D4’s carrot is on a stick that is a thousand miles long.

im just confused on why people put in so much work and hours into mmo levels of grinding for it to be reset and do it again every season? Don’t you want to see all those hours you spent go into something long term instead of wasting it and resetting? It’s like building a house and adding more and more on to it until you have a castle vs building a house and tearing it down to rebuild it again.

What can I tell ya Ziz, there are a lot of stupid people. People don’t read they go blindly into a game because it looks shiny. I’m not a hardcore player and even I knew about seasons, I did play a few seasons of D3 and PoE but when it stopped being fun I stopped playing it is not a big deal.

The fact you think loosing your progression means you don’t get gaming seems short sighted and one sided. There’s also a thing about doing the same thing over and over again like a rat in a maze. Repetitive and not experiencing anything new.

I know that ARPGs have relied on seasons to recycle content and extend their lifetime; I also don’t find it compelling to reset characters just to participate on the new content. In D2, I NEVER did seasons. In D3 I did seasons only because they gave you stash space, and because it takes 30 mins to get to max level.

Blizz will just have to put some effort into keeping the eternal realm fresh

I often catch myself, when i talk with my less game savvy friends, that there are A LOT of things that i take for granted that they would never even think about. The freshiest example from D4 is that i instinctively right click on the map in games to put a marker on it because its basically a “standard” for many years now. If game has a map there is 99% chance right click/middle click will put a marker on it, maybe even plot a proper path to it. Many people didnt know its a thing in D4 and to be honest i dont think there is any indicator that you can do that?

Most of the, not so smart, comments and opinions are from players who never played loot based aRPG.
For the past 9 months you could see Diablo forums being FLOODED by MMO players (LA/Destiny/FF etc) complaining, demanding, critisizing etc.
Give it a month of two and they’ll move to complain about something else

Idiot devs. SMH.

D4 is mainly geared towards console. A lot of the design choices are for that audience. D4 actually has a pretty decent rating on console as well. I just don’t think those audiences overlap much though. I personally think they have tried to have the best of both worlds and ended up with something in the middle. Great story and world. However a gameplay loop that not really for either audience.

Seasonal or ladder resets are a very affordable way for game companies to extend the life of a game. Just because ARPGs have them doesn’t mean it’s a must-have feature. Diablo 4 isn’t your average ARPG. It wants to mix MMO and ARPG along with Live Service, so it shouldn’t have Seasonal “resets.”

We shouldn’t accept the cheapest way to extend the life of a game.

Plain and simple, D4 needs more aspirational content between lvl 60 and lilith at lvl 100, and they NEED to drop great and exciting loot. Usually this is playing the campaign bosses at higher difficulties to unlock better gear and stronger enemies/bosses, but lol in D4 you only can fight the main bosses once on easy difficulties.

I have 2000 hours in poe and was playing d2r until d4 came up. I find D4 boring and poorly developed. I deeply regret paying $90 for it. I don’t think D4 hits the core mechanics of ARPGs the way a lot of other games in the genre do. I was even playing Last Epoch recently and enjoying that. Honestly, I think designing an ARPG with level scaling is a horrible idea and takes away from a key experience. Each level and item found should create further contrast between your power and the monsters you are currently farming with the ultimate goal to be able to farm the best parts of the end game. Currently, the level scaling dampens that experience and I find myself dragging my feet knowing that getting +5 Willpower at level 52 has only hurt me and my ability to clear dungeons.. Now that I’m trying to level a second character and give the game the benefit of the doubt I find the grind from level 30 to 50 brutal. I’m just not having fun but I’m trying to justify to myself the $90 expense. Further seasons encouraging me to do all this shit again does not sound fun.

Peronally, I love the season reset. The journey is fun and acquiring new gear for the “first” time is noice.

Eternal realm exists.

Lol no wonder they keep dumbing their games down so much if this is their player base

Those people on Twitter have donkey brain

seasons make the game feel fresh again, and usually have some sort of mechanic that helps the grind move along faster or get you up to par faster. d2 had ladder only ruinwords, d3 had some crazy mechanics, poe has things you instantly experience when you start playing. all these make the play through more exciting and not so tedious as it once was.

I really dont feel like doing all missions again. So boring.

I can see people played D2 without ladder and burned out on D3 ROS well before seasons and equate a couple hundred hours of gameplay in those games as a lot. Maybe I’m off here, but I don’t think what Blizzard did with those games help show how seasonal content can be fun – it was mostly ignored if it wasn’t for you.

Based on other things I’ve already seen, I think these debates are good for D4’s team to see and give some opportunity to act as they’ve shown they are open to suggestion. Dropping the renown grind (or making something like events and helltide progress it) and giving eternal characters battlepass access seem like obvious wins here. They have the full stats on how much people are really playing and I think there’s just too huge of a playerbase – and therefore dollars – if they don’t simply alienate eternal. But it sounds like S1 is too close to the initial release and it is making the whole situation awkward.

And really, if a guy is playing <1hr a day and level 11, I can assure this man personally he has no need for seasons and will be heavily entertained for months.

I dont understand why they cant just increase level cap each season. if the difficulty scales with your level anyway i dont understand why they dont do it that way.

I’m a Diablo 3 vet that bought Reaper of Souls, finished it then uninstalled months before seasons were a thing! 🤣 My one wish in PoE2 is for a casual 12 month league that lasts from 1 expansion to the next. Are league updates that destroy builds in standard league a topic that PoE players even talk about?

A bunch of MMO players think it’s an MMO and not an ARPG

guys, this is how diablo has always been, and this is part of the fun, dont get attatched to your characters, and when a season comes, take pleasure and joy in creating a new character to play new seasonal content, unlock new seasonal gear, and then you get too keep that character at the end and all of the items too, its all good no downside, only if you get hyper attached to your non seasonal character.

Tourists are dumb. Water is wet.

Advertising and marketing is a powerful tool… The irony about this game is that at this point, level 11 dads that can only play a hour every other day are just as disappointed with this game as the most arpg enthusiasts, albeit for different reasons.

I reached to level 93 but stopped playing after I figured it’s pointless to play because of the battle pass restart now I don’t see the point in even playing

The issue lies in the fact that new Seasons introduce some unique game mechanic or item type (or end-of-season rewards). So in order to experience that, they’ll have to start a fresh character each Season. [New/Casual] Players want to experience that all without having to start from Level 1. 

If the end-of-season rewards don’t have a universal effect or impact on the player’s account, then Seasons are a waste of time. In that case, sticking to the Standard game would be in their (casual players) best interest. And the problem with this would be that a significant update of the game (Seasons) would not be accessed by them since it would be a waste of time. This is especially true if the rewards are trash or “meh”.

If the unique game mechanic/items don’t transfer to Standard, then it’s also seen as a waste of time. They are sinking their time into Seasons only to experience it temporarily. It then becomes a perpetual cycle of starting from scratch to experience something that may or may not be enjoyable (Seasons).

Of course, this is just how Seasons work. There is always a major initial time investment with the release of a new Season, and it’s just naturally anti-casual since that’s how grinding works. And it feels especially so if you have major non-Seasonal progress.

Everything will depend on how enjoyable and unique the Seasons are. I hope Diablo 4 will inherit some of PoE’s design philosophy and implement Seasonal content into the Core Game.

Of course, Diablo 3’s Seasons had a history of introducing some INSANELY powerful items. I hope D4 doesn’t stick to just that, so that players can have a good balance of gameplay and power. If they stick to D3’s Season design philosophy, then I think the game will feel stale real quick.

It’s the idea of not utilizing the character you’ve invested a lot of your time into. I started playing arpgs with D3 when it came out and never played a season. Everytime I started i quit 10 lvls in. In all my time with D3 I leveled two characters and got to paragon 220 then quit playing.

The seasonal model is lazy imo. Devs should think outside of the box and create new end-game material. I understand it’s about the journey and not the destination, and that’s what arpgs are, but that isn’t what they have to be.

My god what are these people expecting to do in the game, surely they have not even played!?!?!? With no campaign , renown, and achievements the game has literally 0 content left beyond running nightmare dungeons (rifts) for eternity…. Even WITH seasons this is going to be stale AF. Considering everything is level scaled, and therefore not unique in and of itself, this will exasperate the staleness. It is also what made d3 such a shit ARPG.
This is how you create a game with NO PLAYER CHOICE. No choice in the content you want to do (as there literally is none). No choice in your build, as it has been predefined by legendary powers and unbalanced affixes. And lets be honest, if you call that skill tree or paragon board “choice” I would put into question your level of critical thinking….
This new age of gamers is just yikes. I swear people these days want to buy a game and automatically have a max level character, with BiS gear, with 100% completion already done, without ever having to think about any sort of build customization, or ever even having to play the game.

It’s kinda weird to me because it’s like playing a Battle Royale for the first time and being like “What do you MEAN I have to restart every time I enter a match? Why can’t I keep my guns?”. Before I start any genre or game I have no idea about I look into it a little bit to figure out what I am getting into. But I guess I just interact with games way more deeply than someone who is the actual definition of a casual gamer?

I imagine a lot of these players are like me and a bit older.

They likely played Diablo 1 when it came out, got hooked, and played D2 for a few years. Might have played D3 when it first came out and didn’t have seasons, and then maybe didn’t play a lot of ARPGs since then. Diablo fans who aren’t super online may not have realized that ARPGs in general started doing the seasons thing.

Actually Seasons “only exist” for those who play Path of Exile kkkkkkkk

Asmongold often talks about how the games need to cater to the casual demographic and he is grossly wrong on this point.There is something that most streamers or people in general don’t consider when it comes to the topic of casuals VS “hardcore” players. The point that you should do what the majority of the player base wants is actually incorrect. The choices the game should make should not be based on what the majority of players want but what the majority of the “in game experience” player base wants. For instance – 1000 dads who play 1 hour per week vs 100 players who play 40 hours per week. The second group even, tho it is 1/10th the size, is actually playing the game 4X as much. Meaning they are effected 4X as much even AFTER you factor in the casual player numbers. It is ridiculous to allow a large group of player who turn the game on for 10 minutes a day decide the direction of that video game. it is not even part of their life. This doesn’t mean they have no say it just means it needs to be factored into the equation I shared above. In an instance where the casual base should be heard would be where 1000 dads play 1 hour per week and 4 casuals play 40 per week disagree. In this case you have 1000 hours for the casual player and 160 for the hardcore players so in this instance the casual player base should be heard. But – for the most part (especially in a game that has no subscription) the actual PLAYER base should decide the direction of the game not the “I play once a month” player base!

One of the largest reasons you didn’t touch on is the change in leadership for the game development, and the effects that brought about. Originally, D4 was supposed to be shaped for seasonal content that worked WITH longterm character progression. It was basically going to be more like D2’s ladders that could take more than a year, but would be on the main server, so EVERYONE could be involved. But, this was also back when they said mercenaries would be in the game at launch, and they had busted their asses to make them really cool. Most players knew these things, and that was that.

However, there were long periods of silence afterwards. This was when they changed leadership, put someone else in charge. They went back to D3 style seasons… which, btw, was when PoE saw a HUGE increase in numbers, as D3 seasons were boring AF. They lost track of WHY people play Diablo games: story and lore. Players play PoE because it is all about the competition. Sure, there’s a story there, but no one really cares. It’s pretty generic, and thin as can be. But, that works to PoE’s benefit, as it is ALL about the builds, the mechanics, gameplay, etc. They could gut what story there is, and no one would notice OR care.

But, Diablo… I’ve played ever since 1997 when I was bedridden from surgery in the Army. I fell in love with the story and the world. Seasons aren’t about those things. AND, we were promised THIS one wouldn’t be like D3, that they learned their lesson from how few people actually DID play the seasons in D3, and the complaints people made about them. So, sure, have seasons, cool… but, do it on the main server. Include that making a NEW character actually boosts you up the battle pass FASTER due to certain challenges that only lower level characters could complete.

That would also help out the people who are the ‘I have kids, job, etc – so I’m still only lvl 12’ types. There are definite WIN solutions, but the D3 seasonal players don’t want to hear that. The more I try and talk to them, the more I am convinced that 90%+ of them are dedicated to forcing the game to be THEIR way, and every other player can either be forced to play that way, or they’re ‘snowflakes’ and worse. The rest of us just want to play Diablo, have waited a decade to continue the story, and don’t want to wait another decade. We want to have MORE of what Diablo is all about: story, lore, plot, dialogue.

The others want PoE, but not on PoE. I play PoE, too… but, if I want that, I go THERE. Diablo is a poor representation of that, and should do something different than PoE does… maybe like they promised they’d be doing? That promise that roped so many into giving them another shot after Immortal’s disaster?

well it is never easy making a game and its end game for the audience. u cannot cater to everyone

Ziz you were on Gaiaonline? What side of the forums did you hang out? xD

Most of this is poor communication and last minute changes due to backlash also being poorly communicated. Renown not carrying over and then only some carrying over is a recent change and not what was originally planned. NO ONE wants to redo renown. Period. Full stop. Also, what I’m curious to see is retention over season 1. You can level up quite quickly in D2, even faster in D3. D4 is a grind if you don’t have power leveling so it feels like your season is going to progress much more slowly, but perhaps that is intended?

ARPG’s are more than D4 and PoE. So saying that this is a “genre standard” is just out of touch with reality.

only negative of D4 season is the 3 months i’d say. Casuals won”t be able to do all the nice builds they can think of when (for druid) you need at least 2 uniques to play something else than pulverize and a barely functioning lightning storm build.

you’ll just see a bunch of rogues because all the other classes are a F hassle to grind on. Either they buff the drop rates for mandatory uniques that make builds function ( like tempest roar or crone staff, if you don’ have that or don’t play pulverize until you do, Druid is one of the fucking worse experience ever) or they make some classes more casual friendly because i see Druids and Barbs being mostly played by hardcore gamers in a 3 months seasons. Casual will play them a bit, find them harder and harder as they level up and just abandon them when they can’t find uniques (which cannot be trade…..) and drop the season because, who want to start a new toon mid season because of a shitty experience with the first character? Yeah no one. The length is gonna be a problem for casuals who want to try strong and fun builds on certain classes, no doubt.

If I would know at the Start of buying D4 (New Player here ) that you need for every season a new char. I would not buy the game so I go on my main and wait for 3 month for the content to come to Main Servers every season. Sucks for me (ultimate Edition) but I dont give my time for another Char

Yeah I’m not trying to make a new charactwr every season.

jesus. how casual are d4 players.

I think it would be really cool if you could keep a character or make a new character

Because other ARPGs did seasons this way this means D4 should do it this way too! Not. Certainly we’ve come up with a better way of doing things in the past decade no?

in other arpgs i generally only keep my first max level character or if i truly hated it the one class i gelled with and it becomes for example the eternal BANK . i try to test something differnt every season a new class new abilities etc to keep the game fresh and to expand my knoledge base i rarely have time to max level mulitple charcters so i generally make do with 1. and maybe a bank if its poe because we know the bank alt is a thing probably in d4 2 tbh…

With how desperate blizzard is to retain what audience they have, it’s disappointing to see them potentially stray from the core foundation of the genre just to appease the people who don’t understand how it works. And to flat out say you are a D2 and D3 veteran, and those games never had a seasonal reset is hilariously embarrassing.

Even in ARPG’s that don’t have seasons, I never played the same character forever, and would so often start over with new classes to play through the game again. I don’t get why people are losing their mind over this

Kinda funny how same streamers whenever people talk about stuff that diablo 4 lacks for core gamers always goes back to blizzard made the game for casuals as reason that its okay. Yet whenever casuals complain they go and say its arpg of course it is like that. Ziz and other streamers also said diablo 4 is okay to be differenf from othed arpg yet here we are using that as defence. Stick to one pls

I think the issue is that season 1 was not ready for the games release. Now it feels like a sort of open beta test, making us free bug finders.

In PoE terms, it feels like starting a fresh SSF character, in the timeframe that there is no active league. You know a new league is starting soon, so why bother progressing?

Feels like im wasting my time playing D4, when i know i need to start fresh in a couple of weeks. Would be nice with some sort of reward, like exclusive cosmetics/titles for all players who unlocked wt4 before season 1.

Sunken Cost Fallacy?

I love Diablo 4 it’s a great game my only problem is as a solo player exp is so horrendous it shouldn’t take me an hour and a half level from 67 to 68

I thought the seasonal reset was a PoE thing, not an ARPG thing. Having to replay the story every season is one of the reasons I don’t play PoE. Honestly, this sours me on D4 a bit.

But I guess I should have done some research in ARPGs. So thats on me.

D4 is still fun tho. I guess I’m just gonna come and go every few seasons, or when I have the itch.

People should just sftu. Stop qqing like some spoiled brats. 1 hour dad van continue level in eternal realm. lots of stuff todo for him. it like everyone thinks just because they bought the game they are entitled to have the entire game designed around THEM.

Currently level 29 and playing when I get a chance and think it’s awesome. I do feel that the professional players streaming completing the game by day 2 or 3 before I even had the standard game version, made me feel like I’d progress through the game a lot faster, but turns out streamers are just insane and play 20 hours a day at a crazy pace which actually made the game look less fun and potentially my character less powerful.
I looked around the shop and found it rather lacking but bought some clothes, maybe it should say “Clothes shop”
At times I’ve found myself running faster than someone on a horse.

This is just a product of the marketing. This stuff is getting so expensive to put out that it’s not shocking they have to pretty much con people who would typically not play those games into buying it to help pay for everything. The same people complaining about the idea of seasonal characters are the same people who will buy an MMO special ultra deluxe pack that helps them out getting to max level , and then once all the explosive reward popups and obvious spurs are over, they uninstall and jump onto the next hype train

It’s funny to imagine because the original D2 was something I was peer pressured into getting, and the difference is I didn’t go in expecting it to be the equivalent of Among Us, etc at the time. I mean, I loved Nox, but it’s like we were more open to new ideas then. IDK

EVERY game has seasons now. FPS games, RTS games, ARPG games, hell even WoW arena has seasons. These people are delusional.

The issue here, is time invested. Some people can’t play this game for 4 hours a day and unlocking renown specifically is a stupid grind locked to specific tasks and areas that are just not enjoyable. The fun (for me) is seeing how far you can get in a season, but if you are going to handicap me by doing stupid boring shit like the renown grind for the first week of a season, yea no thanks. Effectively blocking me from seasons. D2 didn’t do this, you can level up and gain experience/skill points in whatever part of the game you wanted.

My problem is that it takes a ton of time to level characters, and I don’t want to do that every single season just to play new content. I don’t have the time to treat this game like a job. I have an actual job, and other games I want to play. There are too many games these days that expect you to only play that game and I’m kinda fucking sick of it. I haven’t even beaten the campaign yet and I feel like I’ve only just wasted my own time. I probably won’t be getting the battle pass, or playing the game again if my existing character is locked out of new content.

What’s the point of hitting max and getting the best gear if you just have to restart?

I think these people want more of a destiny style where you keep the characters and add on to it with subsequent updates

totally waste of time since day 1 dont know why people craving for this, i got high hopes for POE 2

>People expecting a good game from Blizzard today afterr everything they did to playerbase and their IPs

If the game was designed more in line with other ARPGs that utilize seasons, I would be just as confused, but the reality is we have no trade economy, leveling is a massive slog, and the item hunt is generally pretty shallow (mostly uniques), to name a few things.

I’m a season lover, but they’ve made design choices that just don’t mesh well with expectations of the genre. The ridiculous time investment to level and barrier to entry of the pinnacle boss alone makes resets more tedious than they are in other ARPGs.

Again, I will always prefer seasons over the alternative, but unless they address some foundational issues the game has, resets are going to feel kind of bad, even for an ARPG Andy like myself.

I played up to about lv 60 Demon Hunter and ~lv30 with a other classes back in Diablo 3 prior to seasons really starting and never went back. Honestly didnt know they had character resets. Leading up to playing D4 myself and some friends started playing PoE and didnt realize until partly through the campaign that seasons meant a reset. We all slowly stopped playing that.
I like everything about these ARPGs except for the character reset. BUT I also see how the reset adds valuable content time to the people who enjoy it. About two-three weeks into D4 and I have three characters in the 50-60 range. Thats playing essentially only D4, and only because im on Summer break from college. I feel like this model will lose/leave behind a lot of the super casual audience that its trying to capture by being an ARPG middle ground compared to how intimidating something like PoE is. Starting a character over every season (3-4months?) before I feel the power hype and see the “Big Numbo” would be discouraging. Not to mention if they drop a new class every few seasons? If I buy it I have no reason to NOT pick them, seeing tons of that class everywhere that season feeling less unique, and potentially never even seen or feeling that class flesh out. Itll be difficult to feel attached to “I main necro etc” and investing into that playstyle long term. Maybe thats the idea/drawing point, is making yourself try a lot of different playstyles.

I can see myself getting to level 50-60 every so often season-to-season but feel theres going to be a huge amount of content I never see. Im banking on my idea that the expansions will be content direct-to the Eternal Realm and I’ll be caught in the “casual” audience that basically only plays for the major expansions when they come, and see the seasonal content if its added to the Eternal realm.

The battlepass issue being added on top of this is probably an extremely surface layer issue that will wane off even more people. With so many good games coming out I’d hate to buy a battlepass and be under the impression that (1) I must complete it otherwise I lose the value of my $, (2) playing this time doesnt matter anyways because most of what I earn will be obsolete, (3) the player (probably) already has so many other responsibilities and other hobbies, games, interests to put their time into. I think its not difficult to understand how people might come to the conclusion that D4 might not be for them in the future if they believe something along these lines.

I remember that my first season was a bit of a mental hurdle to get over (but muh character). However, the seasonal bonuses lured me in, and the seasonal gameplay concept convinced me very quickly. I really don’t get what Tassi thinks he’s going to do with those eternal realm characters when they’re “done” – put them on a shelf and look at them?

Yeah, i just dont find D4 to be anything new/innovative. Im happy that i didnt cave in and buy this especially at $70 but ill still be on the lookout for a new ARPG that innovates or brings some sort of grind like POE. Bouncing between POE2 and another game that operates similarly would be perfect for me.

I’m just as lost as you are Ziz. Blows my mind that people are like D2 and D3 didn’t have seasons. Uhh… Yes they did…D2 were Ladders and they reset for fresh races to 100, but not all of them had new content until we got the synergy update and rune word update otherwise it was pretty minor. And D3 didnt start with seasons but eventually went that way as well. I’m so confused how these players don’t know this. I would burn out of this game even faster if season’s or ladders didn’t exist. I wouldn’t of played 3 years of my childhood in Diablo 2 if it didn’t have ladder resets.

I play PoE for the Ladder resets because of the new content and refreshing way to play the game, new builds new gems, makes it great. These people literally have no clue. And in D2 a majority of players never hit 100 ever. D3 you could hit Cap in literally a couple of hours or less then start paragon farming on ladder reset, but thats what made the game boring. Was the same season after season. Burst to cap, get your free overtuned gear, get ancestral gear, do rifts, quit the game. And that wasn’t fun for me at all.

But yeah I hit 100 in D4 one of the 6000 softcore guys that did. Why did I hit 100? I enjoyed playing my barb, it was alot of fun despite what people were saying and made it work since level 1, I didn’t do 4 man parties I just played at a chill pace. I had 2 struggles in my 50’s and mid 60’s and I quickly flipped my gear around and it was smooth sailing.

All these casual andys crying about seasons being bad, will tune in every year for the new NBA, NFL, MLB, ect. season not realizing that its exactly the same thing happening over there.

So I’m confused, at the start of a season. You have to restart again? From scratch? That’s bonkers, took me forever to get to level 70.

If you don’t have the experience with other ARPGs seasonal mechanics to expect a whole new way to play the game, I can understand the anger. If you think Season 1 means a second grind through a bad story with worse side quests followed by a miserable collect-a-thon on the world map, anger is an appropriate response. Hopefully Blizzard will justify the $70 price tag with their seasonal content by adding interesting gameplay, but that remains to be seen – they haven’t announced specifics, and if you have no genre experience to compare it to that reset is gonna sound harsh.

thanks rob from the block

My favorite genre is arpgs but I have always disliked the idea of seasons and having to restart characters and have to replay literally the same character progression over and over. When I was younger I used to just spend the time and do it but as I get older it becomes more of a chore. Lets put it this way…if the new game content was placed on both a season server and the regular server which one would you play? Nobody would start new characters. Incentive has to be created in the form of the content thats locked behind that wall in order for people to replay the same character over and over

Honestly the leveling and paragon system in D3 was much more conducive to seasons in casual play. Scrap renown or make it permanent across seasons, lower the level cap, and focus the game more on doing end-game content and start adding things to that list instead of just a very watered down map system and they’ll have resolved most of the issue. Getting to max level in a D3 season took all of 4 hours being fairly inefficient. Then you were working on your seasonal set achievements while hunting for gear, and after that you were working on paragon and getting a good build off the ground. That flowed much more nicely than 50-60 hours of grinding up front.

I have said this for months now lol

This is an ARPG, but it’s built like an mmo. Even seasons in D2 made you create a new character, but an old school rush took 10 minutes. With Diablo 4, having to grind to get to tier 4 will destroy the point of this game, which is to farm end game loot. Some people will spend an entire season not getting to tier 4. Many people will stay in the eternal realm or just stop playing. As for the ones who are used to this, they also get the shaft. Because Diablo has always been a game of runs, and they have made our ability to do runs into more of a chore in as many ways as possible. When players have to do things such as clear a dungeon except for the last boss, log out, and repeat, to get ahead, that is very poor design. At least let me kill the damn boss. I must’ve killed Mephisto in D2 millions of times over the years. Diablo and Baal too. And that was the point of the game. To continually dominate those guys and get better and better at it as we went. Now in D4 we are just… grinding trash mobs over and over again to get better xp and loot to grind more trash mobs. They have to find a true way to mix the runs feel of D2 with the current mmo layout. Currently, what they have is not it.

After the unforgivable bullcrap that Diablo Immortal was, I decided I wouldn’t get Diablo 4…

And with every new thing I learn about D4, I’m increasingly glad I didn’t.

season based content and starting a fresh character is the thing I love most about arpg’s

That moment when min/maxers realize they are only a very small % of the playerbase.

Seasons are fine, but levelling is way too slow. I feel like 1-20 is a good pace, then the slog begins. I don’t mind the pace dropping dramatically post 70 or something, but just getting to WT4 on an alt feels like a chore without a boost. For those of us who don’t play for a living, and who have familial responsibilities in addition to our work, it’s just annoying. I had hoped D4 would respect my time more than POE, but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case.

And unfortunately Blizzard has paid bukoo bucks to streamers to pump up the game.

I have played D2, D3 and POE. D4 feels different, the mindless grind required to reach full lvl is insane. Each character requires such a high time investment that creating a new one feels like insanity.

I think it just really depends what the new season content is. If it is some fun new mechanics then it’s worth a reroll. Also opens up some potential for races. Having a maxed op geared character is great but how will that keep you interested long term.

Blizzard audience has always had a ridiculous amount of extremely ignorant, but also entitled casual players spamming any discussion forums with their confident braindead takes. That’s the reason every Blizzard game just turns into shit eventually. They just keep asking Blizzard to make the game, or even the whole genre cater to their playstyle/playtime because they only ever think about the surface level of any potential changes. It’s definitely the worst, most infuriating fanbase of any company – but that’s what happens when you heavily market your games to people who actually have no fucking interest in these types of games, they just don’t know it themselves. They like the idea of playing an actual MMORPG/ARPG etc., but don’t actually enjoy it in reality. So they will just whine until every game is turned into a shallow fast-food type experience without any depth, but they will also be the same bootlickers that defend their greedy cash grabs, because swiping requires absolutely no investment/knowledge/effort/time in the actual games.

D4 is just kinda boring. Feels like a $40 game, not a $70-$100 game.

Eternal characters should be able to progress the BP. Also, the quests for the season should also be available for eternal characters

It’s a Blizzard game dude.. Built on the foundation of “The time you put in here, will exist as long as we do” WoW -> Overwatch -> Diablo. All different genres yet share the same value at (some) level. The open world MMO style of D4 is also baiting them into unsustainable expectations from this genre.

PoE does it with its MTX and i don’t know if you noticed but Blizzard now sell MTX in WOW. That’s.. trippple dipping.

Kinda expected I think. Blizzard has a wider audience now than ever before. ARPG’s are definitely not for everyone, and I think the people that will only play through the story once and call it a day is a bit mad about paying ~$100 for it.

Seasons are for players that are ready to put a bit more time in short amount of time. In I have a friend who plays PoE in standard SSF. He plays on console. The rest of us play Leagues, but I don’t play each and every one. If they make the game without Seasons, it would be dead pretty fast. They need Seasons and they need to add content each Season or PoE/PoE2 will destroy them. They can make Standard or whatever the permanent form of the game is fun, perhaps they can add the Season content to it, I never understood why PoE does not do that, but I don’t play Standard, so I don’t care much.

is this like DOTA2?

The main reason I hate seasons in an arpg (especially POE) is having to redo the campaign. The story is very weak in most arpgs and thus having to replay all that boring content with my limited availability. I rarely even get a chance to get to t10 maps before the season is over. Getting to play maybe an hour every other day makes the season grind feel like mostly repeating the least enjoyable parts to get to the fun stuff and most people are like me. We enjoy the games but we don’t have to time to stay on the treadmill as much. We just want a way to skip to the fun stuff instead of having to dredge through shit to get to it every season. Renown, way points, etc. Those all took lots of time for people to fully unlock and nobody wants to unlock all the waypoints every season or grind renown. For seasons you should be able to focus on the “new ” content not simply play the old shit with a twist
Currently the way to reset dungeons in d4 feels like a glitch because it’s not “built in” like POE. D4 devs need to make dungeon resets faster and easier. It’s almost like they knew there wasn’t enough content so they make you waste time in other ways like loading screens.

Helltides are terrible in d4. They are ok until you realize the 1 hour you have to play doesn’t fit into the window for helltide so you can’t progress your gear. Have been stuck with same shitty non upgraded gear because the resource I need is scarce and locked behind time gated content.

Overall I don’t see this game being successful long term without some tweaks for the more casual players. When hopping on feels like a waste of your 1 hour of free time, people start looking for other things to do instead.

Has any one played Torchlight2? It’s my 2nd fav game.

As a casual gamer, I had more fun with destiny 2. ARPGs are just not meant for casual gamers with little time.

Just accidentally sold my Ancestral chest piece because everything looks all the fucking same when yellow and Unique epics are about the same color wish they could make them red instead, and it was a perfect chest, and the buyback is fucking shit since it only lets you buyback the last 8 items or something when you clear out your inventory.

I think you should be able to progress the season pass without having to make a new character for the people who don’t want to make a new character. I will be making new characters for sure but I can understand why people are upset when theyve never played a game like this.

I’ve been seeing so much negativity and backlash about seasons over the past week or so and I was genuinely confused why so many people were upset. This is nothing new for an ARPG and I feel as though people who are upset about seasons either never listened to what was being said or just wanted to throw money at something to join a hype train. Unfortunate for them but I’m excited to start seasons already

yeah, im not a arpg player, start playing poe and when i found out that i could not play that character i was leveling up in a new season, i abandoned the game. I know that is a core mechanic for an arpg, but is not for me.

I was assuming it was a season based because i played a ton of diablo alikes, including poe and they said as much. I do think that the current diablo IV is too grindy to be season based though. We’re going to have to see if the grind is easier to stomach in the season. Renown in particular is hell on earth. I know they’re making it easier supposedly but i want to see what they do.

Imagine putting all your time and effort into a character, thinking you’re about to get some sweet cosmetics for said character, then this.

Imagine only being level 11 at this point. It takes 30 minutes to hit level 11.

If you can only get level 11 in 2 weeks just don’t bother playing. How is that even fun. Either learn time management skills or accept everything else in your life is way more important.

To be fair ladder resets morphed into seasons/leagues (Thanks GGG) and the dev’s decided to monetize the game sometime around the 2010’s -2015 the moneychangers capitalized on what was simply a fresh start reset.What people are pissed off about is that some people put a lot into their characters to the level of cosplay after all it is a roll playing game but are forced to abandon that character for the carrot of new features and as Blizario has already stated the new features WILL NOT go to eternal at the end of the seasons.

The problem isn’t seasonal reset, the problem is that the way D4 is now, the first 2 weeks will consist of boring grinding. At least in D3, even a casual could be pumping greater rifts after the first weekend

Blizzard made a casual ARPG with a hardcore focused seasonal model. Starting over is not something many want to do even if they are more on the hardcore side. The people who are ok with it will likely end up doing back to PoE for the insane build diversity and thoss who aren’t ok with it will just quit, leaving Diablo not in a great place

It’s just that gameplay is not really fun at all until you level up. Then once you have enough perks and paragon points, you can finally start to use your class to the fullest, aaand then there is no more content

There’s going to be a significant drop in players when season 1 starts and you have to start over to access it.

The entire reason I’ve been going at d4 kinda chill after the initial launch week rush is I didn’t want to get burnt out prior to season one as I’m super psyched to see what is coming and to main something else for it….(I started Sorc at launch) so I’m finding the misunderstanding of seasons as strange as you are…this is exactly what I bought into D4 expecting…quarterly seasons & fresh starts. Same reason I like PoE new seasons…always interesting to see the latest twist.

I completely agree that lettiing eternal do battle pass would fix most of this.

I have to say that so far I love Diablo 4 but it does need a little work. I have played since the 1st and because of my work schedule and everything I am only like like level 62 (I have to work six days). I pretty much pop an XP potion everytime I do anything now and I am trying to farm all the renown (almost done!). I think it wouldn’t hurt to just punch up the XP gain a bit more, maybe for nightmare dungeons, helltides, or anything endgame. I really loved how in D3 you could level quickly, I don’t think it needs to be that quick, but not as grindy as it is now.

Its manly that doing all the side quest and dungeons is boring.

They probably should have played the other diablo games to see if they liked the arpg games before getting the 4th of the game. So many people jumped on it because they saw so many people playing it that they didn’t want to feel left out.

Destiny 2 players need to go back into the hole they crawled out of. What a horrible community

I get not liking the season system, it’s not for everyone, but what I don’t get is that people are spending upwards of 100 hours playing the game and THEN proceeding to be like “So all my time was wasted because I have to start a new character for the season?” No. You’re time was wasted if you weren’t having fun to begin with and you continued to play for 150 hours anyway. You can hate the system, but don’t be mad if you already had fun with the game the way you expected to in the first place.

The reason I think people lean toward disliking the season system is that the game doesn’t feel full-fledged on release. It feels like the base game is half-baked with the intention to IMPROVE upon systems in the seasons – This should NEVER be the intention. The ideal version of this game would feel full and satisfying enough without the seasonal content. THEN, a season would add nuances to the game to provide players with a fresh experience as an incentive to return to the game. In other words, seasons should be a reason to return to a game, not a reason to play to begin with, and I can understand how the base game on its own might not feel like a game worth playing to begin with to some.

This is my first Diablo I’ve bought. I’m with the 70%. Having to restart every season is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in a video game. Every single other game with a battle pass doesn’t make you restart to play it. Doesn’t matter if that’s what D3 did, it’s beyond stupid.

Yea. If you never played Diablo 3 seasons and come from an MMO or any other GaaS game where you don’t just create new characters on the regular this might feel kinda counter intuitive. When I originally played D3, I played it until I beat Inferno (post nerf) and kinda bounced until years later when I bought the expac and a friend of mine got me into seasonal content. I suspect most people just never played seasons before.

Blizz’s decision to make characters go to level 100 is sending mixed signals. If we compare D4 to D3, getting to 50 in D4 is like getting to max level in D3 (70), and level 50-100 in D4 is like doing end game in D3 where you get your paragon points (and it’s a long road). In D3 I would grind rifts to get gear and paragon pts. My goal was to push as high as I felt like it until i hit too much diminishing returns. But in D4 I set my mind on getting to lvl 100, and my motivation started to peter out around 78. There’s a part of me that feel like I “failed” my goal to get to 100. If this was D3, I would be like “yea this was a fun, see you next season”.So I understand if people feel they still have unfinished business with their main character to some degree.

If people aren’t up for seasons, I think these are the same people that bounced off original D3 after beating Infero (or just once). It’s fine. It’s up to Blizz to make it compelling to players. That’s their job.

Your exactly right D4 drew a whole new demographic of people who don’t really understand the restarting of seasons.

I think by virtue of your status as a streamer, playtime with a variety of ARPG’s and so on, you are on the minority side here Ziz, not in a bad way, it’s just your view is a lot more lax in terms of whats acceptable than others who A: are new to ARPG’s or gaming, COVID saw like 400% increase in home gaming or something like that, B: most people don’t have several hours (speaking loosely here, several meaning more than 2) a day or a week to play, current economy means people are working more and their gaming passion/ hobbies are begin time farmed instead of being meaningful, lastly C: I think that mostly people don’t like meaningless repetitive loops, sure blizzard wants not only daily logins but also concurrent playtime so this is a win for them but its going to drive away a lot of the casual homely players, the dads/ moms, the workers, the 30s+.

People using D2 and D3 as clout are using it as a badge of “hey look at me I know what I’m talking about”, most of them dont and they haven’t played an ARPG SINCE D2 or D3.

Modern gamers or veteran gamers have been conditioned by modern gaming tactics in marketing and game design. Think of it this way, someone who played D2 who hasn’t played an ARPG comes to play D4, put yourself in their shoes.

As a casual player, D4 looks very unwelcoming.

Keep it real Ziz, “try to RIP, less than you do” 😜

Im a dad of 2 nd probably play 2-3 hours max most days. Im level 68 nd used to play poe nd d2r. Seasons will be great, they are always fun starting the grind again arpgs should stay this way to be uber strong you gotta grind. I dont want d4 to turn out like d3 where everything was handed to you. The one big change i think is needed is map to be unlocked on alts but you still have to do the strongholds for those certain waypoints.

Let’s face facts. D4 has already accomplished its end game. And will be in damage control for a good long while

As someone that has casually played PoE for years now (make one character each league, maybe reach red maps, maybe not), I feel like PoE has the advantage of both a decade of content additions on top of having way more versatility in character builds from the passive tree to support gems to cluster jewels and uniques, both gear and jewels, and what content you want to do and spec into via the atlas passive tree means you can even specialize that skill into a type of gameplay; all of these things create such a vast web that I’ve been making a variation on the same character with the same few skills each league for years now and it’s always a blast and new, from CoC to ailments to using combo’ing skills, to totem, trap and brand variants to a more aura or curse version, adding in battle cries or damage conversion, all without even really thinking about uniques.

The reality is that I want to make some lightning and earth druid builds: to be frank, while there’s a few I can think of, if I take any one skill, there’s not much I can do with it. If I’m going lightning and earth, well, I pick up all the lightning and earth passives every time, I’d be dumb not to. There are a couple keystone passives I can use, which is something to choose, but only between two options. How can I alter skills? There’s a few legendaries, usually just one for each skill that you will use if you are using that skill, so, again, not really a choice, and otherwise, the skill functions how it functions. Is there another lightning and earth druid I can make for season 1? Sure, but not much past that tbh, especially with how limiting vulnerability is to get.

I’m not saying it won’t be a good seasonal game in the future, but it feels very limiting when it comes to making a new character every 3 months, unless you just make an entirely different character each time, which as a casual player who likes a certain selection of skills and am attached to this character, is not going to want to remake if there isn’t something new for them. I have a character I like to play, and in PoE, I make a different variant each league, which just doesn’t seem very possible here.

This is part of why I kind of wish GGG would add even a minor amount of character customization to each class in PoE2 because that shit does matter to a casual audience. We are the kind of people that get attached and invested to a character like in an MMO, and customizing both the spells and look matters to me. I remake in PoE because it’s technically me making the same character that does a slighty different thing with a similar skill each time, and doing that in D4 is going to be me primarily leveling up doing the same thing with the same spells every league. It really isn’t very appealing. We kind of have to see what they add/change each season before any of this is very definitive.

aarpg core is to grind. this whole lets make it easier for the common player just dosn’t make sense behind an AARPG. the hardcore ppl that would keep it alive are loosing interest such as myself with their choices. and the people they want to keep the casuals don’t give a fuck cause its not an MMO

I just want to get it refund.

I’m surprised this thread caught you off guard Zizaran, as you very well know alts are a problem on D4, it takes way too much time to reach 100.
You’ve spoken on the concessions the devs already made as far as what would be transferred from your main to your alts so as to lighten the grind.
WHat these people are mad about isn’t necessarily the concept of creating a new character for a season it’s the idea of creating a new character on Diablo 4 and having to get that characterto 100 under a season, no matter if the map is revealed and the altar buffs transferred.

Seriously on my lvl 80 it takes like at the very least 10 nightmare dungeons 20 lvls higher than me to gain a lvl you can’t expect that kind of time sink from regular people that’s hundreds of hours per character for anyone who’s not group rushing or chain resetting and no-one wants to do that.
Diablo 4 showed a weakness as far as replayability i think when compared to Diablo 3 when it comes to it’s campaign and how it brought you to high lvls.
I wish we could compare how much time it took a normal player to complete a D3 season compared to what’s coming with D4.